Airline to Fractional...

[SELFloadingCRGO]

Anyone that has been at a major or regional airline made the switch to fractional? Pros/Cons? Do you regret ever making that move or has it been the best thing you ever did?

 

[bailey3083]

6 years at a regional and let me tell you the best thing i ever did. I will never go back to the Airlines again.

 

[Gator1999]

5 years at the regionals and my QOL is better than ever. I will never go back to the airlines either.

 

[CA1900]

Anyone that has been at a major or regional airline made the switch to fractional?

Yep. Best move I ever made, no question. I didn't realize just how much better things could be--from pay and benefits, to hotels, to condition of the equipment--until I came to Netjets. Absolutely no comparison.

I'd be hard pressed to ever go back.

 

[c5driver]

How about from you major guys out there. I know it's much better than the regionals but what about a major??

 

[Willy21]

There are a lot of guys with numbers at AA, UAL, Delta and US Air that are still here. You won't make 777 captian of FedEx money at NetJets, but you will have a stable career. Being backed by Berkshire is huge.

 

[fischman]

3 years at a regional. I'll NEVER fly a 121 plane again. Best move I ever made.

 

[bailout]

do a search,...

 

[jaybird]

the only thing i miss from the 121 world is the size of the cockpit. i'm not big either.

 

[Mooneymite]

Major vs Fracs

I spent 27 years at a major. I'm working at a frac two years now and can tell you, I think the 121 major world is better. Much better.

The big problem with the fractional world is that there really are very minor rewards for longevity, or seniority. Were I to stay at this fractional for another 27 years, I could never, ever look forward to the QOL that I experienced at the majors. I just rode on a Falcon piloted by guys who were super senior. Their life style was good, but nothing compared to what senior pilots at the majors have. They were real proud of their lifestyle, but I pitied them because, if that's the "top", it aint so good.

Who at the fractionals works a 2-on-5-off schedule? When I worked the 2 on 5 off, my 2 on comprised two turn-arounds to SJU that departed at 8 in the morning and got back at 7 the same evening. I never had to spend a night away from home if I didn't want to. I knew where I was going to be a month in advance and if I didn't like it I could swap it away for something I did like. I didn't have to start my trip parking at some FBO and airlining to some other FBO. I didn't have to wonder where I was going to be that night or if I was going to be in a nice hotel, or in the only hotel room the company could find at 7 o'clock that night.

There was no worrying about catering, passenger issues, cabin cleaning, etc. The dispatchers were exceptional. I didn't have to worry about customs, or a million other details. The equipment I flew was head and shoulders above what I'm flying at the fractional (but, I'm flying a Cessna product :0 ).

My wfe and kids flew non-rev anytime they wanted. Never got stranded and went to Europe on a lark. I would have to have a zillion airline points to provide the leisure travel that we all took for granted for their entire lives until they left home. Even now, they have non-dependant passes until I die.

Yes, the commuters are the pits, and even being junior with the majors isn't that much fun, but there's a future at the majors that's brighter than a career with the fracs. A bankruptcy with the majors is also the pits, but there are no guarantees that the fractionals won't go through the same thing 27 years from now.

Do I hate working for a fractional? No. It's a very good job. Is it as good as a career at a 121 major? In my opinion, no.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I did regionals to flexjet. I work a hell of a lot less, more rest (10 hours min), better hotels...the list is long.

the only thing I miss is the cockpit door, and having FAs to add a personality to the trip

 

[Willy21]

Moneymite,
Do you think somebody starting at a mojor today will ever see the quality of life and quality of job you saw in your 27 years at your major? If my math is correct you got hired at the majors in the 70's. You were fortunate to see that job in a way that since has gone away.

 

[Mooneymite]

Who knows?

Moneymite,
Do you think somebody starting at a mojor today will ever see the quality of life and quality of job you saw in your 27 years at your major? If my math is correct you got hired at the majors in the 70's. You were fortunate to see that job in a way that since has gone away.

Who knows? Unless you have a crystal ball, there's no answer to your question.

Personally, I believe the 121 world is at its nadir. There has been enough suffering and misery that even the lethargic 121 major guys have "had enough". I suspect they will stop their distructive in-fighting, unite and take back a lot of what has been allowed to errode. My personal opinion is that the war-hardened pilots that are starting today will make the 121 world a better place over their careers. It wasn't so much that we got screwed as we allowed ourselves to be screwed because we thought we had too much to lose to fight.

I was hired in May of 1978. I had no idea that deregulation would be so distructive, I had no idea of the fuel shortage of the early 80's, I had no idea how the controllers' strike would hurt us, I had no idea that so many airlines would merge/go out of business. I had no idea that my airline would cut off its retirees at the knees in such a callous fashion at the end of my career.

However, I still had a wonderful career and don't regret my choice.

There are no guarantees except that things change.

Invest your life using the best info you have; reap the results.

 

[gordon24]

Regional to frax. I have never looked back.

 

[BombJet45]

Majors aren't what they used to be. If you like what you are doing and believe you have decent job security then stay. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, it's green where you make it.

 

[acaTerry]

I have to disagree with Mooneymite. The generation of airline pilot coming in today has no desire to fight for anything. They all want the fast road, 300 hour academy to give them an airline job, however crummy, so they can "make it to the majors". These kids have no CLUE what a union does, or how to make a union work for them. They ridicule anyone who takes a hard stand (the fight you mentioned---see the SKW jump seat thread) and generally have the attitude that if you don't like the job...quit. Don't fight to better it, just quit.
You flew with pilots who took their flying, appearance and image seriously. Pilots who made the job lucrative because they presented themselves well, flew professionally, and FOUGHT to better things. Today, its iPods, backpacks, wear parts of the uniform if they like to, and "the bedhead look". Fight to beter the job? No way, man. They surrender with the old "supply and demand" argument. The airlines are used to cheap pilots, and the pilots are used to being krapped on. They are stuck with it because too many spoiled and lazy kids are taking the job and giving it all away to "fly a shiny jet".
I will stay at the fractionals. My rest is never less than 10 hours, I know the place will be in business, and we will not lose our clientel will not leave us for a competitor over a $10 increase in cost.
Sure it's more work, but the company treats us better, I don't get passengers with bare feet, sleeveless shirts that reek or armpit juice, and they pay us enough to live. Sorry that you hate your new job. Just realize that we are not talking about yesterdays airline pilot lifestyle.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

For you guys that made the switch, how is it to deal with the pax, having no FA, and throwing the bags? To me that would seem like a con, but not to say its not worth it.

 

[imacdog]

It's no big deal. If that is going to be a problem for you then definitely don't come here - you're going to spend your career not only flying but taking care of your passengers and your plane.

 

[jtf]

The fracs require good customer service skills. If you can't stand dealing with people than this is not a good job for you. You will sling bags, make drinks, give safety briefs, and smile a lot for the pax. The job pays fairly well now and has more security than most pilot jobs and that was enough for me to make the change a couple of years ago. It is definitely possible to have more pay and more days off at the majors. You will just have to wait it out to get the seniority and pray your airline survives. I'm sure the majors will improve their pay in the next few years, but I doubt it will ever be the same kind of job that it was in the glory days. The airlines are making money again, but if they snapped the pay back to the pre-cut levels most would be in the hole again very quickly. They are getting a little better at raising the prices, but airline management has a pretty sad history of leadership and I'm not willing to bet my career on them to keep things going well.

 

[Mooneymite]

I have to disagree with Mooneymite. The generation of airline pilot coming in today has no desire to fight for anything. They all want the fast road, 300 hour academy to give them an airline job, however crummy, so they can "make it to the majors". These kids have no CLUE what a union does, or how to make a union work for them. They ridicule anyone who takes a hard stand (the fight you mentioned---see the SKW jump seat thread) and generally have the attitude that if you don't like the job...quit. Don't fight to better it, just quit.
You flew with pilots who took their flying, appearance and image seriously. Pilots who made the job lucrative because they presented themselves well, flew professionally, and FOUGHT to better things. Today, its iPods, backpacks, wear parts of the uniform if they like to, and "the bedhead look". Fight to beter the job? No way, man. They surrender with the old "supply and demand" argument. The airlines are used to cheap pilots, and the pilots are used to being krapped on. They are stuck with it because too many spoiled and lazy kids are taking the job and giving it all away to "fly a shiny jet".

You may be right. I hope not.

I don't think that the poor attitudes indicated on these boards are all that generalized. I think the "average Joe" still has a lot of grit.

I hope that the generation of pilots coming up have watched and learned from those of us who retired in a burst of airline bankruptcies. We succeeded in making our careers so good that we got so comfortable we failed to defend ourselves and the wolves attacked.

 

[av8tor4239]

left the regionals after a furlough and then being stuck in the right seat for 5+ years.... Will never look back to the airlines.

As far as moon's comment I totally disagree.. I have family at FedEx and I can tell you it is not a " catch me if you can" lifestyle.. yeah the money is there.. but you will look like your are 90 when you turn 40. Trust me I saw it everday as a kid growing up...

As far as the Legacy carriers... only about 10% of the 5000+ pilots at a legacy get to enjoy the schedule moon was talking about and most people that want to achieve that sched will not be able too because they will turn 60 or 65 before the even have the opportunity.

Today you would have to get on with a legacy carrier at the age of 22 to be able to bid in the top 10% as a captain.

I guess the point that I have lived by this far is "if you dont enjoy the process what is the point"... if you have to endure the BS that is now known as the airlines to get a year or two with a 2 on 5 off sched to SJU... It is just not worth all the mess...

 

[cush]

I just rode on a Falcon piloted by guys who were super senior. Their life style was good, but nothing compared to what senior pilots at the majors have. They were real proud of their lifestyle, but I pitied them because, if that's the "top", it aint so good.

Let me get this straight. As one of the "super senior" falcon pilots you pity ME?!

I have (4) 21 day vacations a year on a schedule I know many months in advance. Flying the rich and famous in arguably the nicest flying aircraft in the world(less than 400hrs./yr), to a variety of destinations(unlike my prior 121 job).

I have a kickass FA's doing 90% of the passenger interaction/cleaning/stocking. I'm served free hot catered food followed by hot towels. Stay in high quality hotels. All the while making at or better than senior legacy pilot wages/benefits. For a company that gets bigger and better with age and is owned by Berkshire Hathaway.

I can see how that makes sense.

 

[cush]

Oh, and it appears highly likely I will get through my entire aviation career without a furlough, retire before 60, and never look back.

Please send donations.

 

[Mooneymite]

Oh, and it appears highly likely I will get through my entire aviation career without a furlough, retire before 60, and never look back.

Please send donations.

You and I need to sit and have a beer one afternoon.

 

[learflyer]

I don't get passengers with bare feet, sleeveless shirts that reek or armpit juice, and they pay us enough to live.

Tommy Lee smelled like that the morning I picked him up in LAS! Rich people reek too! I get your point by the way!

 

[fischman]

For you guys that made the switch, how is it to deal with the pax, having no FA, and throwing the bags? To me that would seem like a con, but not to say its not worth it.

How is it to deal with pax? Try it sometime. A 121 PIC is not a skygod that is beyond talking to. People are nice. Talk to them.

Having no FA? IT IS A GODSEND!!! No offense to the FA's at NJA/NJI, but I CAN'T STAND THE FA's ON 121 FLIGHTS!!! They are usualy prima donna's or bored with their job.

Throwing bags? Not a big deal. It takes a grand total of 30 seconds to load the ultra usually. Every now and then it is like a big tetris puzzle trying to figure out how to get everything on, but usually it takes 30 seconds.

 

[Club ORD FO]

For you guys that made the switch, how is it to deal with the pax, having no FA, and throwing the bags? To me that would seem like a con, but not to say its not worth it.

actually, I think had more customer interaction in the airline days, thanks to all the delays and just getting attacked when walking through the terminal. here, it seems like they show up, you shake hands, ask them if they need anything (most say no), and you never hear from them the whole flight. At most they ask you where you keep the water. Since joining the fracs, I've never had to deal with the "i called my friend in Ohare, and she says the weather is fine, so why are we not going."

Throwing bags is no big deal, since i usually have only 2 passengers. not like i am loading up an RJ or anything...

 

[Fozzy]

Personally, I believe the 121 world is at its nadir. There has been enough suffering and misery that even the lethargic 121 major guys have "had enough". I suspect they will stop their distructive in-fighting, unite and take back a lot of what has been allowed to errode. My personal opinion is that the war-hardened pilots that are starting today will make the 121 world a better place over their careers.

That is two predictions I would not bet on.

 

[CA1900]

That is two predictions I would not bet on.

And you know why?

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/931/mesaba5.jpg

 

[Fozzy]

And you know why?

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/931/mesaba5.jpg

Hey where is his IPOD and backpack? Poser.