Airline Pilot Salaries in the United States...

[LarryinTN]

This is an often misunderstood aspect of regional economics. On a per unit basis, the regional pilots are actually OVER paid in comparison with their Major airline equivilents. We all think that the regional crews are cheap to management because of the low salaries but the regional airplanes produce so many fewer available seat miles (ASMs) that the comparison turns out quite poorly for the regional pilot.

As an example, take a B757 with 190 seats. Say that Capatain makes $165/hr. In one hour his airplane produces 190 seats * 470 knots = 89,300 ASMs. That's $0.0018 per ASM.

A 50-seat CRJ Capatin might make $80/hr . That's 50 seats * 450 knots = 22,500 ASMs. That's $0.0036 per ASM--double the cost per ASM of the highly paid B757 Capatin.

It's even worse if we consider that the B757 Captain flies longer average legs so is spending more of his block hours at cruise speed which produces an even larger split between the two.

This is how the JetBlue E190 pay scale ended up so low. They took their A320 pay rates (which are okay) and applied the same pay per seat to the E190.

I figured this out back in the early 1990s when I flew for American Eagle and we were trying to convince AMR that we were worth more than $15k/yr for an F/O and $28k/yr for a Captain. Back then the split was closer to 4 to 1, AAL to us, as we flew turboprops and the Major's hadn't taken all of today's pay cuts. Once I understood the implications of these calculations I knew that I had to move on to flying larger airplanes as the future at the regionals, even with the rumored RJ's right over the horizon, was limited by the economics.

In Europe they pay the regional pilots a pretty descent wage but they also top out much lower at the major carriers. The good part is that you reach a good wage much earlier in your career. The bad news is that the top end is much lower.

 

[wndshr]

HahahaI was about to go off on you!

i changed the font size on the last sentence...too much of a give away...what are the bets someone goes off without reading the last part??? 2:1? 3:1??

 

[Purpledog]

Another reason why the pay gets so low is obvious in this post. Pilots attack each other at will and fight amongst themselves rather discuss these things objectively

Man you hit the nail on the head. Divide and conquer is the name of the game and we are the rookies.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Captain in Over His Head.

I'll tell you this much about me. I was a "commuter" pilot back when the biggest aircraft were 19 seat turboprops, moved on to a "major", got furloughed, recalled, had a career, retired (just a bit early) now fly outside the airlines. Even a "genius" like youself could probably figure that part out.

So if it makes you feel better about yourself to think I'm a "Freedom Puke", go ahead. But be prepared to face the consequences of your stupidity. In that "career" section above, I earned my "battle scar", so yes...it hit a nerve. But not the way your pointed head automatically assumes.

So name the time and place. Or maybe I'll just be waiting on your Comair RJ. I'll look for the lifetime loser in the left seat.

 

[Captain Overs]

I stand corrected tuff guy. (sarcasm intended)

 

[tranceport]

Random thoughts:

in every industry there are pimps and then there are the whores. Which group do pilots fall into in this industry?

It's almost laughable when someone posts stuff like: 'why don't the unions do anything about?'. Can you offer any suggestions? Believe me, I don't like it either.

Really, if the pay is really bothering you, go into another field. Or work a part time job. I don't mean to be crass but be real. I also went into this industry when I got my CFI in 1987 and wanted to make a good wage and live a decent life...but wages and decent life are mutually exclusive...iow, making alot of money doesn't bring happinness...iow, if your wages went 'up' I think we'd still find a reason to bitch.

Real wages in all industries, not just aviation are going into the crapper. It's not just the airlines. If you are single, no kids, no debt, and you 'love' to be away from your apartment about 50-80 hours a week, then work for crap wages, why not? How can you blame someone? It's cool. Yeh, someday you will make a 'liveable' wage.

Comparing 'majors' to 'regionals' for pay is an overplayed comparison. Basically what one is trying to say is what some of us have been trying to say for years and years: pilots should not be payed this low at regionals (and maybe secretly that major pilots make 'too much'). Well la dee dah, look where we are today? you still have 'low cost' bankrupt and non bankrupt carriers charging $59 to go half way accross the country. Many 'regionals' don't even pay for their own gas.

When someone complains about 'unions' and 'message board infighting' as a reason for 'low pay'...all one can do is say: wake up and smell the coffee. It's ridiculous. Step away from the computer for a few weeks, stop watching and reading the popular press and figure out what you really love to do in life and do that...great pay or not. Life is not a dress rehearsal.

In the meantime, here's a quick summary:
good economic times+high barriers to entry+government regulation= companies charge what they want, make money, and unions can 'demand' a piece of the pie.

bad economic times+low or no barriers to entry+ oversupply of willing whores+overcapacity+runaway double digit health care costs+oil prices double what they historically have been (1/3 of airline 'costs')+mgmt with no plan + walmartization of customer service= A failed industry.

If we think wages will go up when things 'get better', we are suffering from a serious case of 'wishful thinking'. I wish us all the luck because we are gonna need it. This is no longer a profession, it's a job. And we're not all to blame for it nor can one group do anything about it.

Love,
tranceport

 

[JetFumes]

People need to stop calling our fellow pilots "whores". Give me a break, alot of these young or inexperienced new pilots don't know any better. Yeah, yeah, do the research and all of that, they still just don't know any better. And the furloughed guys are just trying to get by and/or feed their families. Its hard to throw away years of training and study to, "just go do something else", thats a real bitter pill and not easy to do. Seems to me its these rouge airline managers that are using the back against the wall situation of many of these pilots to their advantage. We need to stop blaming pilots and start placing blame squarely on management, egos, and wall streets desire to fund any new airline that pops into idiots head,

 

[Captain Overs]

Turning over a new leaf

Captain in Over His Head.

I'll tell you this much about me. I was a "commuter" pilot back when the biggest aircraft were 19 seat turboprops, moved on to a "major", got furloughed, recalled, had a career, retired (just a bit early) now fly outside the airlines. Even a "genius" like youself could probably figure that part out.

So if it makes you feel better about yourself to think I'm a "Freedom Puke", go ahead. But be prepared to face the consequences of your stupidity. In that "career" section above, I earned my "battle scar", so yes...it hit a nerve. But not the way your pointed head automatically assumes.

So name the time and place. Or maybe I'll just be waiting on your Comair RJ. I'll look for the lifetime loser in the left seat.

Fargin,

Can you please forgive me? I thought about it and realized I wasn't respecting my elders. I'm sorry I gave you crap. I'd feel very bad if you fell out of your wheelchair because you got angry with me and happened to break your hip. I don't know what I would do. Some old people never recover. So please stay seated in that chair, have your nurse wipe the drool from your lip, and accept my apology.

 

[azdriver]

Captcaveman
"your info regarding the salaries overseas is inaccurate.
I'm stuck working in Europe right now based in the UK and a regional jet capt could earn around 40000 pounds sterling here, which if you use the current exchange rate equals around $75000. However the buying power of £40000 in the UK is less than $40000US when you factor in the costs of living, taxes etc. Its impossible to compare the two.

I'm a capt at a large EU carrier and earn the equivalent of $140000US but it buys me about the equivalent of $65000 US over here, on a good day. Alot worse off than just about any major capt in the States."

Hey chap,

don't know who you're working for but several outfit in europe offers differents deals:

you can check on www.ppjn.com if you wish or in my personal case:

outfit Alitalia Express (right now more money then mainline if you fly many hours...):

everything is take home, net:
FO 3 yr pay (pay increment in the first 4 year are not steep...) not matters what you fly:

base salary:2100 euro
food allowance: 69 euro/day
overtime pay:60 euro (we have a credit system,aprox over 65 hrs you go credit) the first 10 then is 120...


average with no credit is 3300 times 13....

cheers

 

[capt. megadeth]

HahahaI was about to go off on you!

Ha ha ha.....my first thought was "is this person on crack?"

 

[capt. megadeth]

People need to stop calling our fellow pilots "whores". Give me a break, alot of these young or inexperienced new pilots don't know any better. Yeah, yeah, do the research and all of that, they still just don't know any better. And the furloughed guys are just trying to get by and/or feed their families. Its hard to throw away years of training and study to, "just go do something else", thats a real bitter pill and not easy to do. Seems to me its these rouge airline managers that are using the back against the wall situation of many of these pilots to their advantage. We need to stop blaming pilots and start placing blame squarely on management, egos, and wall streets desire to fund any new airline that pops into idiots head,

Very well said.

 

[FLB717]

MGT when an airline starts sets the pay low to start, as a means to have a lower cost. VJ, JBLU, etc. As you piss off the folks paying them 35K to be a captain (VJ) they form a Union. The Union then sets about gaining rules and wages. So you get from 35K at VJ to 150 Hr at AAI through better contracts. Now lets look at DAL, started small with low wages many years ago and grew to what we have today. THEN they have a choice, take a big cut that they can participate in, or end up on the Court Hose steps. DALPA did the right thing (I just defended the General, wow), but their piss poor MGT the stabbed them in the back with this waste of fares in a sorry attempt to do something. Then we get to the other side of the coin. You gain a better, not good contract for what you do through a very difficult time, (CMR). And then after your company makes 40+ Million in the worst economic time the Industry has ever seen, you take a two year freeze (Cut) to buy airplanes for your company and try to rationalize it by saying we need to grow. Now who has lowered the Bar, you be the judge.

 

[sluminginpit]

Hey dooshbag! You are a ** idiot. You claim you paid your dues and earned your scars, what a stupid thing to say! Why the *** evn try to be united when guys like you base every future advancement on how hard it was for them. " We can't change that, I had to do that!"

Do you fly in diffrent airspace then me, is the weather better, are your airport delays different? I fail to see the differnce in your EXPERIANCE at your major than me being INEXPERIANCED at my regional. Your plane maybe heavier and hold more people, but we do the same job. Until a$$holes like you recognize that noting will change. No one was blaming anyone, just stating the facts. The wages suck, the working conditions are decling and no one can quit because we have obligations to contend with.

Save me the attitude, I know just as much as you and can fly just as well or better then you!

 

[outtahere]

Yea, I have no idea how contracts work. You have no idea about WTF you're talking about. I have been in this business over 20 years. Don't tell me what I do and don't know.

I guess your years of regional flying have taught you all you need to know. I see you're one of those 15,000 hr regional lifers. That tells me all I need to know about YOU. By the way "a part" is two words, in this case. "Apart" means you have come "apart" at the seams. Like your brain. No wonder you are a 15,000 hr regional lifer. You are too stupid to get a real job.

Another loser who is just a waste of my time.

One thing you're right about. I won't tell you I've been a part of one. I've been a part of dozens. At the regional level and the major level. The pilots elect the MEC, the MEC negotiates the contract, the pilots ratify it, and agree to work under these wages. Then they b!tch about the crappy pay. THAT'S how contracts work. You have no one to blame but yourselves, yet you point the finger at everyone BUT yourself. Either change it or get out. But quit blaming others and take responsibility. Like that'll ever happen. Right, loser?

Call me a "Freedom Air puke" to my face and I'll kick the ever lovin' sh!t out of you. If you have the guts.

This is why the piloting profession is going in the crapper. You got one thing right in your name dude you are a dooshbag. You know I have never in my life seen such a bunch of b!tchy little A@@holes. Could someone please explain to me how becoming a professional pilot makes you revert to a childlike mentallity? I am a regional pilot! Not because my whole life my dream was to be a "REGIONAL PILOT", but because as of right now that is the only job available. And you know what, if in ten years when the "Majors" get there
sh!t together, but I have 16 to 18 days off a month and making $60k a year I will stay at that regional airline. Personally my *** isn't so small that the only way I can make myself feel good is to fly the biggest thing on the ramp. Now does that make me less of a person because I choose to spend my career flying a smaller jet than you?

 

[TIGV]

Wow Isn't this fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though, just my .02 but de-regulation kicked off a slow death spiral in the industry, I mean how can you deregulate what is arguably one of the most regulated industries in the modern age ???
I mean I'm not one for ' Big Brother ' stepping in more than he has already done but c'mon, let's set a minimum cost per seat mile so that we can actually afford to get from ( A ) to ( B ) if we run our **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** half-a$$ straight, let quality of service and destination once more rule how a customer chooses his/her airline.
This isn't Greyhound for cripes sake !!! This is tons of metal moving rapidy through the atmosphere commanded by highly trained, without question, the most dedicated biological entities ever to grace any career field.
$70 a ticket ???????? Are you kidding me !!!!!
( Incidentally the Greyhound driver makes more money than I do and he has more bennies, so If my post gets flamed, I'll be your new driver from 'Frisco to Vegas next month. )