Airline Pay cuts driving away best pilots

[Fubijaakr]

Well, skywiz, you'd better not get in a Lufthansa 737 on your next leave.

Because that's how they train their F/Os.

 

[instructordude]

(I knew I would make less than a medical profession, but decided that 200K+ was good enough for me. I was going to be a radiologist. They start at 600K a year and have over 15 weeks of vacation Most of them are making over 1 million their first year out of residency. Point is that I knew there would bea difference)

I too had a similar problem. I was going to be a professional tennis player but after playing a little in college and talking some who were on the tour decided it wasn't for me. The long days on the tour, traveling to 20 different countries in a year, injuries and skin cancer didn't make the 1-2 million a year in pay worth it. I instead decided to be a pilot.:laugh:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm a military pilot that aspires to be an airline pilot someday (becoming a mil pilot and then airline pilot has been a dream since I was a kid)

One could argue that MIL flight training is a MPL program......


If you decide to become an airline pilot, and MPLs are common place, you'd best accept them as equals... the sooner you treat them as second class the sooner they will readily form their own representation unit and bargain against you....

Number one rule of unionization... we are all equal.

 

[Mud Eagle]

One could argue that MIL flight training is a MPL program......

Eh?

Is that how they turn a 22-year old with 250 hours loose in a single seat fighter?

 

[Flopgut]

I don't think an MPL will be paired with an over 60 captain. That will be interesting. Guys getting screwed by the rule right now will get furloughed on their 60 b-day because they can't fly with the FOs.

 

[Redmeat]

I asked my trash man last week what he made. His response was 60K. My UPS van driver makes 95K with no cost out of pocket for medical.

Yep, and if those guys got their pensions gutted and slapped with a 40% pay cut next week, they would be out the door so fast you would see a visible smoke trail coming off of their shoes.

Not so with pilots. We have proved to the world of management over and over again that you can beat us over the head as much as you want, cut our pay, negate our pensions and we'll keep showing up for work.

Not only that, record numbers of young new talent will get in line to work for the reduced wages/benefits.

 

[airplane wizard]

Sadly, the flying public doesn't care who flies the plane or what they get paid and they probably never will. A major event like this gets their attention for a couple of days but in the end they just want cheap tickets.

That's the american way of thinking for everything. The most for the cheapest price possible

 

[airplane wizard]

Yep, and if those guys got their pensions gutted and slapped with a 40% pay cut next week, they would be out the door so fast you would see a visible smoke trail coming off of their shoes.

Not so with pilots. We have proved to the world of management over and over again that you can beat us over the head as much as you want, cut our pay, negate our pensions and we'll keep showing up for work.

Not only that, record numbers of young new talent will get in line to work for the reduced wages/benefits.

No one is forcing you to be a pilot....get a job with UPS if the grass is greener. It all boils down to the paycheck.

 

[Redmeat]

No one is forcing you to be a pilot....get a job with UPS if the grass is greener. It all boils down to the paycheck.

You missed the point entirely.

You must be one of the new guys that came to the party willing to fly for the reduced wages/benefits. Not real quick on the uptake.

I will go slow this time especially for you, Oooo Kkkkkk?

The point of my narrative was... why would management raise our wages (or keep them where they are for that matter) when they have no difficulty filling pilot positions at the current compensation levels?

Get it now Einstein?

 

[Lear70]

You missed the point entirely.

You must be one of the new guys that came to the party willing to fly for the reduced wages/benefits. Not real quick on the uptake.

I will go slow this time especially for you, Oooo Kkkkkk?

The point of my narrative was... why would management raise our wages (or keep them where they are for that matter) when they have no difficulty filling pilot positions at the current compensation levels?

Get it now Einstein?

OK, I don't care who you are... that's funny.

I'm a military pilot that aspires to be an airline pilot someday (becoming a mil pilot and then airline pilot has been a dream since I was a kid)

If there is ever a day when the MPL program (and I am an airline pilot) feeds 1 year wonders with 90% of their time in a sim to the Majors, I will walk out of the career for 3 reasons:

I don't think it will happen at the majors, but it's already BEEN happening to a certain extent everywhere else.

I've been flying with 280-300 hour total time not-yet-21 year olds in the right seat since way back at Pinnacle 4 years ago. Doing it again in the Lear right now, an airplane with almost zero automation to help when things start going south, and it's largely a single-pilot operation.

It's one of the reasons why pay is so abysmal at the regionals and Charter companies who hire whoever they can get to play the "yes" game. The guy/gal is just so darn happy to be here, they don't care if they qualify for food stamps and still live in their parents' basement for 2-3 years until they are close to upgrade. They'll only be 24 by then, making $60k a year, that's not so bad, right?

Like others have said, until people stop flooding this profession with pilots AND we can stop the MPL and cabotage, things won't get any better, unless pilots at EVERY carrier are willing to, just like the UPS guy, put their boots to work and walk away for a while.

The only thing the CEO's understand is money. Hurt them financially, they'll do something. Otherwise, forget it. :deadhorse:

 

[IBNAV8R]

I've been noticing a disturbing trend during the last ten years or so. Focus is made on following the procedure, SOP, FOM, FAR, AIM, etc, without knowing the why or reason.
"If you do it this way, push these buttons in this order, you'll be safe."
If you push them in any other order you're history."
"But what if . . .?"
"Just follow the well-thought-out-procedure!"
"If you remember to keep up your airspeed, you can't stall or spin so we won't concentrate on such unlikely things."
"If you get a shaker, follow this procedure and maintain your altitude."

We are no longer creating pilots but systems managers. This is not to say that managing systems is not a vital skill. But, I had an alarming interaction recently in which a couple of fellow captains declared that they ALWAYS use the autpilot because it is safer and more comfortable for passengers. They forbid F/Os from kicking off the A/P above approach minima. "You mean you NEVER practice approaches with just the F/D or hand fly using raw data?" (A/P and F/D are both MELable on this airplane)
"No, that would compromise safety. Passengers don't want us 'practicing'." HOLY DOG$!@T BATMAN!! I sure as hell don't want ride on their airplane.
Recent events have highlighted the fact that systems fail and when they do, systems managers are useless. Unless we have stick and rudder PILOTS who can actually FLY, people are gonna die. Unfortunately, any airline-type-training school can quickstart a systems manager but, there is no fast track to becoming a PILOT.

 

[jimcav]

Amen to that!

 

[Birdstrike]

The point of my narrative was... why would management raise our wages (or keep them where they are for that matter) when they have no difficulty filling pilot positions at the current compensation levels?

It's funy how some things never change. The exact same sentiments of above appeared on the old defunct Propilot.com's early message boards back in '95 or '96. It will probably still be posted in 2021.

In WWII he was called Jody and he's always with us - those guys who are more than willing to step in and take your place with a smile, completely undermining you in the process. They never run out of them.

 

[Flyin2low]

You guys need to get educated on the MPL pilots. Most responses in this thread are way off base. Fear of the unknown or ignorant, I don't know which?

The only accurate info was about the chick who is training for the MPL with LH

 

[AKMD80GUY]

What about this clown.

Co-pilot’s Age [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]34 years
[/FONT][/FONT]Co-pilot’s Flying Experience [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]381 hours (of which 147 were on type)
Last 90 days - 154 hours
Last 28 days - 49 hours
[/FONT][/FONT]
Here is the full report.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Airbus A320, G-DHJZ 12-08.pdf