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Airline Letters (A post from OneSky Crew Lounge)

Dirty Squirrel

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Since many aren’t part of the discussion on the OneSky Crew Lounge, I’m pasting this below with permission from the author...

Letters from other Unions.

We have all recently seen letters from Airline Unions and Union associations talking about our efforts to decertify the IBT 1108 here at FlexJet. This is a continuation of the IBT 1108s heavy handed thuggish behavior. In an act of absolute desperation, Rick Dubinsky, the IBT1108 and the Teamsters have reached out to every single Union contact they have. They have given them misleading and outright false information to get them involved in our internal business here at FlexJet. By involving outside Unions the IBT1108 hopes to pressure and intimidate our pilot group into keeping the Teamsters. The IBT 1108 has also insinuated that pilots here at FlexJet will somehow be tainted for life if we vote them out. First they threatened our jobs here at FlexJet with certified letters telling us to pay dues or be terminated. Now they are attempting to threaten or very careers by dragging other airlines into our internal affairs. This is not because they feel it is what is best for our pilot group, it is because they are desperate to keep the pilots of FlexJet under their control and paying dues. I encourage everyone to read these letters from outside Unions and take note of the common threads they all share.

First, they state that the company and outside third party anti-union forces are the driving force behind this effort. This is a lie told to them by Rick Dubinsky and IBT1108 Union Leadership. The company has absolutely no involvement in this effort if they did the NMB would have shut us down immediately. The outside non-profit group was only contacted for free legal aid after we already had cards from well over 50% of our pilot group. Unlike the IBT1108, we don't have a pile of cash extorted from pilots to pay lawyers with so we found free legal counsel with an internet search. From the beginning, this effort was by our pilots for our pilots.

Second, every single one of these letters talks about preserving the bargaining power of Unions in the airline industry. They talk about how FlexJet going non Union could impact their leverage with their management. They talk about the need to preserve their hard won wages and work rules. -- What they don't address is the needs of our specific pilot group. They don't address the IBT1108s abject failure to address the wants, needs and concerns of our pilots here at FlexJet. Our concern is for the 577 pilots we fly with every single day here at FlexJet! ALPA, APA, SWAPA, EVEN NJASAP may do wonders for the pilots they represent but they are not our Unions! We have Rick Dubinsky and the IBT1108 and they have failed us, lied to us, ignored us, and yes threatened us.

Third, look at the Groups telling us to keep the Teamsters as our Union. American, SouthWest, United, and NetJets - not one of these highly paid pilot groups is represented by the Teamsters! Now look at those who have signed letters that are represented by the Teamsters - Allegiant, Republic, Atlas, Travel Management, our base FlexJet pay is higher than what they make. Those of us who flew for regionals often tolerated substandard pay and contracts at the urging of our affiliated Unions at the majors because we were hoping to make the step to the majors someday. We showed solidarity with the majors and excepted our lot because the regionals were just a stepping stone. FlexJet is not a stepping stone it's a career destination. We have pilots making more than many airlines already so why would we stick with substandard representation from a substandard Union at the urging of Airlines who operate in a totally different industry?

Last but not least, blacklists or scab lists. Not one of these letters from various airline unions mentions any such thing. Not one of the Union groups who has sent out these letters at the urging of Rick Dubinsky and the leadership of the IBT1108 has threatened our pilot group. We have reached out to several of these groups and all of them do say they support a Unionized workforce in the airline industry but not one has threatened Blacklisting. Not one pilot here at FlexJet has crossed a picket line so there are no scabs. These threats come from just one place - our very own IBT 1108! The very people who call us "brothers" and preach solidarity are threatening to destroy our careers. A small minority of our pilot group associated with the Teamsters is willing to stab people they have worked with for years in the back. Their loyalty is to themselves first their union second but absolutely not to their fellow pilots. The person who will place a fellow pilot's information on lists provided to outsiders, flight info.com, the VUH, or any other site in an attempt to hurt careers is not trying to build solidarity or speak for their fellow pilots. They are trying to bully, threaten, and intimidate people into compliance. If the Teamsters, Rick Dubinsky and our own IBT 1108 leadership truly had our pilots' interests at heart they would immediately and loudly denounce and quell this type of behavior. They won't. Those engaging in this type of behavior or condoning it are beneath contempt. Every decent person in the IBT 1108, please step up set the record straight and put a stop to this behavior! If not, the IBT 1008 and you own it.

Fly Safe.
Vote "No Representation"
 
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shanes123

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ALLEGIANT has a industry leading contract and Netjets got their first industry leading contract with the Teamsters!!! Republic pay is damn good for a Regional. more then our 50k first year FOs are making get the facts straight..out right lies
 

bluepost

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This language is not coming just from 1108. I have zero contacts with 1108 and I can tell you what everyone in this industry is saying about this issue and the decert. SWA, FedEx, UAL, NJA. It's not good.

You're muddying the waters.....if you have a problem with the Teamsters, you replace the Teamsters, just like NJA did. You don't throw out the union. Unions are only as strong as their membership. Unions are like fertilizer for those strengths, you can get farther with them, AND you have a legal binding contract with your employer. If Flex is making promises they intend to keep, than they shouldn't have any issue putting it into a contract. If your group is already weak with a union, it will be a complete disaster without one, and then you also begin to threaten other groups outside your own by empowering the powers that be. Those powers do NOT have your best interests at heart, they have zero incentive to pay you one thin dime more than they absolutely have to. Once the economy turns, good by raises, hello pay cuts. A company can't do that with any other cost. Not fuel, not maintenance, not aircraft. You would be providing an invitation to whipsaw your wages.

As a NJA pilot I have to say, I really think this decert would be the end of Flex. The exodus it would cause, and the low wage operating environment would cause NJA to try and take Flex down. Without a union, any buyout if anything remained would be a staple job at best. I would march in the streets before I would allow all pilots to come over without an interview that included our union pilots.
 
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DirtyBeech

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You can stop reading at the start of the second paragraph where the author has the temerity to suggest that neither the company or a third party to be named later has anything to do with the decert vote.

Either that individual is a useful idiot or thinks you are one. What a whopper to open with.
 

cougar12

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I just had a fraternity brother reach out, we had a great conversation. They already have notes and are disseminating through the fraternity network and beyond. It is really amazing how small the pilot world seems sometimes! I think just about every carrier is connected in someway.
 

Jim

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ALLEGIANT has a industry leading contract....
If you think Allegiant has an industry leading contract then you're very confused on what is industry leading.

Allegiant is a bottom feeder.
 

EnFuego

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Dirty Squirrel, you know better than this.


First, they state that the company and outside third party anti-union forces are the driving force behind this effort. This is a lie told to them by Rick Dubinsky and IBT1108 Union Leadership. The company has absolutely no involvement in this effort if they did the NMB would have shut us down immediately. The outside non-profit group was only contacted for free legal aid after we already had cards from well over 50% of our pilot group. Unlike the IBT1108, we don't have a pile of cash extorted from pilots to pay lawyers with so we found free legal counsel with an internet search. From the beginning, this effort was by our pilots for our pilots.

Handschuch's weekly rants are absolutely involvement, so you're lying out of the gate here. Second, James F Edwards Jr and Russ Brown are the PRIMARY CONTACTS on your NMB application. Neither one of them has even a cursory tie to aviation. So the BS meter pegs again on your claim of pilot grassroots efforts. And lastly, The UPS pilots are also part of the group who have published letters in support of us. THEY ARE TEAMSTER REPRESENTED! So your assertion that no pilots who support us are Teamsters is also a lie. And did I mention the Teamster represented pilots of UPS are the highest paid pilots in aviation.
 

Dirty Squirrel

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Dirty Squirrel, you know better than this.


First, they state that the company and outside third party anti-union forces are the driving force behind this effort. This is a lie told to them by Rick Dubinsky and IBT1108 Union Leadership. The company has absolutely no involvement in this effort if they did the NMB would have shut us down immediately. The outside non-profit group was only contacted for free legal aid after we already had cards from well over 50% of our pilot group. Unlike the IBT1108, we don't have a pile of cash extorted from pilots to pay lawyers with so we found free legal counsel with an internet search. From the beginning, this effort was by our pilots for our pilots.

Handschuch's weekly rants are absolutely involvement, so you're lying out of the gate here. Second, James F Edwards Jr and Russ Brown are the PRIMARY CONTACTS on your NMB application. Neither one of them has even a cursory tie to aviation. So the BS meter pegs again on your claim of pilot grassroots efforts. And lastly, The UPS pilots are also part of the group who have published letters in support of us. THEY ARE TEAMSTER REPRESENTED! So your assertion that no pilots who support us are Teamsters is also a lie. And did I mention the Teamster represented pilots of UPS are the highest paid pilots in aviation.

I didn't write this. I simply cut and pasted the text here for all to see and debate.
 

shanes123

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Far from a Bottom Feeder read their new contract. Jimbo..Military???? HMMMM. only military guy I have ever met that didn't support his fellow soldiers and pilots is J Fatslata..
 

Jim

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Far from a Bottom Feeder read their new contract. Jimbo..Military???? HMMMM. only military guy I have ever met that didn't support his fellow soldiers and pilots is J Fatslata..
I support them. I live in Vegas and would gladly walk the picket line with them if called for. But their contract is crap compared to others flying the same equipment. They got their new contract before my pilot group got ours. Further
I did read it and saw the comparisons with other airlines as part of the education of my pilot group during our negotiations.
The Allegiant contract was behind in many areas the day it was signed.

The airline's safety record is also abysmal. Good airlines with strong unions don't have pilots fired for doing a ground evacuation after an emergency landing with smoke/fumes.

I have friends that have flown for Allegiant and some that are still there. Most won't let their families fly on the planes. They say the only reason they work there is to get a better job and the only reason they fly the planes is being in the cockpit they have control about whether the plane flies or not. They know they are at a bottom feeder.

But believe what you want.
 

Casa212

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I didn't write this. I simply cut and pasted the text here for all to see and debate.

Dirty Squirrel
Still no sin in the game? Just copy and pasting in yet another thread.
Think what You want and that You are doing good, 96000+ pilots are NOT behind You
 

Dirty Squirrel

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Dirty Squirrel
Still no sin in the game? Just copy and pasting in yet another thread.
Think what You want and that You are doing good, 96000+ pilots are NOT behind You

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Let me clarify what I meant by no skin in the game.... I will not push my agenda on anyone, therefore, I’m not going to debate Teamsters vs. no union. There seems to be a lot of list making by both sides as to who supports what. I want no part of it. Frankly, my thoughts and voting choice will not be anyone’s business other than my own. There are obvious differences of opinion and facts between the union and the decerters and that’s why I brought the opposing opinions here for you vocal guys to debate.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

Vote wisely my friends.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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I say make the list and let the chips fall where they may. The list should be made before the vote and anyone that is not a yes before the vote should not be able to change it after the vote.
 

cougar12

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I am proud to be a member of my union, and if you can’t say that you must be a No Vote and listed as such. I would be taking a picture of my vote to cover my Six no matter what anyone says!
 

Groucho

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The NMB Representation manual states: (Section 3-2) The age of the signatures of the authorizations must be dated within one year of the date of the application for the NMB's services.

When did the decertification effort at FlexJet start?


 

MOMOMOJO

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The NMB Representation manual states: (Section 3-2) The age of the signatures of the authorizations must be dated within one year of the date of the application for the NMB's services.

When did the decertification effort at FlexJet start?



I believe the NMB has already verified the aging.

Unfortunately at this point the vote will happen regardless of the very, very shady history of the card drive.

The best thing we can all hope for, industry wide, is for pilots to realize everything that rides on this decision.

Your vote, unlike your card, is 100% Anonymous. There can be no personal retribution for your vote. Management or your fellow pilots will never know your vote. However, keep in mind there could be broad brush retribution if we put our colleagues elsewhere at risk.

While I think there needs to be more vocal support for our union, if you feel the need to privately vote union but publically remain neutral or pro company, so be it.

Also, your vote cannot be rescinded. Once you sit down to vote be aware of the consequences of those few minutes because they could determine the rest of your career.

Summary:

1 ) your vote is completely Anonymous

2 ) your vote is final
 
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