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Aircraft radar vs. Police radar

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flint4xx

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Posts
374
How is it that a police expert can testify about the miracles of police radar, yet there are so many known weaknesses inherent in a cheapo little tranceiver with a tiny antenna? What kind of technological gizmos exist that can override basic radar theory?

I know that the observation is supposed to be verified by the radar, but I'm quite confident that it is usually the other way around. That is a direct violation of the Florida statute.

I just don't understand how it can be permitted in court still. Any thoughts?
 
What kind of technological gizmos exist that can override basic radar theory?

The authority for them to tell you to shut up and believe them.

I am sure they have their problems with the radar, but d@mned if you try to use it's reliability (or lack of) to get out of a ticket.
 
It's the lack of reliability why many courts will throw out speeding cases where the person was going less that 5-7 MPH over the limit. 15 in Chicago...
Well, in NY it's very very rare to get a ticket for less than 15 over the limit, I doubt anyone gets pulled over for 60 in a 55, unless that cop is really anal that day. Even at the end of the month when they are trying to fill the quota they don't stoop to giving tickets for 5 over the limit.

As for questioning the reliabilty, if the officer shows up to court, he gets to address the judge first. And right away he is going to state that he properly calibrated the radar. For you to come up afterwards and disagree would not prove beneficial to your cause.
 
I don't have much info on the police radar and how it works but I can share a personal story. This was in Columbus, Ohio this past christmas. I was pulled over and the officer informed me that he got me going 80 in a 65 (which was true) but I asked to see proof anyway. So we walked back to his patrol car where he showed me the laser gun which showed the distance he shot me at and how fast I was going. He then proceeded to be the coolest cop ever (well, almost, if he'd let the ticket slide THEN he would have been the coolest ever) and let me 'play' with the laser gun. The ticket cost $100 but I look at it as an investment. I got to sit inside his cruiser and use his laser to clock traffic for 10 minutes. I got pretty good at it too!
I know this doesn't help much with the understanding of the radar, but if you ever get stopped, ask to see the proof and maybe you will get some time behind the trigger of the laser or radar gun!
 
This may not be a popular sentiment, but...

After about a year of experimentation, I have discovered that driving the posted speed limit rarely adds more than three to five minutes to your drive, especially in a busy metro are like Dallas-Fort Worth.

It's also a nice feeling when you come around a corner and there's one of America's finest valiantly defending the fabric of our society from the evils of speeding (while someone's being robbed at gunpoint three blocks away)...and you're doing exactly 55 mph.

Now it should be noted that I have a perfect little one year old son, a fact which which has changed several of my opinions on issues ranging from road safety to nuclear arms proliferation. :rolleyes:
 
as a a laser and radar trained cop....

I will say radar is as accurate as the officer who uses it Laser on the other hand is fool proof ( a red dot pointed at the targets bumper) Radar has a zone of influence where a car next to the target or even a tall truck behind a smaller vehicle could cause the speed to be taken from one and thought of as another.
I would never target vehicles with radar when they are in a pack and I would run a very short distance to target . I also would do the standard tests which consist of 2 tunng forks each with a given speed value .
Officers trained in laser and radar are all experts in speed estimates which are also used as a further proof of a speding vehicle I am certified to within 3 miles per hour .

In New York there is a catch all 1180 A of the veh and traf law speed not reasonable and prudent .

The bottom line if you get busted with laser pay the ticket the laser unit even shows distance at which you were clocked . Radar is a roll of the dice but 90% of the time the judge goes with the expert witness the cop... Chas
 
Re: as a a laser and radar trained cop....

Chas said:
In New York there is a catch all 1180 A of the veh and traf law speed not reasonable and prudent.
Huh?
 
And for those of you driving in Texas: State police on the interstates will give you a ticket at 5 mph over (happened to a friend, I got a warning for 9mph, and another for driving the limit, cop said I was passing traffic and as such was speeding. Classic case of people going slow in the left lane and hitting the brakes when they see a cop car). SAT is very strict.
Big D depends. In Dallas city they give you about 10, but some other municipalities have 0 tolerance on certain roads. Around DFW airport there are 4 city departments and 2 state depts (DFW DPS and state troopers) checking the traffic, all with different levels of 'cooperation'.
 
Why do they have "to serve and protect"

...On the side of POLICE CARS?

10. Because the Phrase "Bend Over, Here It Comes Again" was already being used.

09. It fits in with the McDonalds Advertising that is being placed on squads these days...."yes occifer, serve me up a number 3, supersized with a coke".

08. Because the Police Chief didn't think "A mile from downtown, But a mile from HIGH PRICES TOO!" reflected the true sentiment of law enforcement.

07. "Shoot to KILL" didn't use enough letters.

06. "Cop Groupies Rule" didn't go over well with the feminist groups.

05. Placing the alphabet on the fender was considered, but it gave DUI suspects the edge over policemen, who had to look back over their shoulder to confirm accuracy.

04. "Kilroy was here" got voted down by socialists, for no known reason.

03. "In God we trust, All others pay CASH!" was voted down, due to the constitutional separation of church and state.

02. "When we move, the ground trembles! When we stop, people DIE!" was not only considered too WORDY...but was already in use by the USMC tank dudes.

And the number one reason they put "To protect and serve" on the side of squad cars...

The police hiring profile leans heavily on selecting guys with "A.D.D."...so it's just a friendly reminder from management, as to what their JOB REALLY IS!
 
Last edited:
you missed #11

11) In case of robbery call a lawyer !
Its pretty sad when cops get less respect than used car salesmen , repo men and lawyers . Unfortunately all people remember is getting that speeding ticket.
 
Re: you missed #11

Chas said:
Its pretty sad when cops get less respect than used car salesmen, repo men and lawyers.
Much like any other profession, it's the 10% of all cops who are arrogant pricks who have ruined the reputations of the other 90%. (The schmuck in Tennessee who shot the dog didn't help any, either.)
Unfortunately all people remember is getting that speeding ticket.
Don't take it so hard...the only things passengers remember are hard landings and late arrivals.
 
metrodriver said:
And for those of you driving in Texas: State police on the interstates will give you a ticket at 5 mph over (happened to a friend, I got a warning for 9mph, and another for driving the limit, cop said I was passing traffic and as such was speeding. Classic case of people going slow in the left lane and hitting the brakes when they see a cop car). SAT is very strict.
Big D depends. In Dallas city they give you about 10, but some other municipalities have 0 tolerance on certain roads. Around DFW airport there are 4 city departments and 2 state depts (DFW DPS and state troopers) checking the traffic, all with different levels of 'cooperation'.

Getting a ticket for 5 over is a no brainer. Take it to court and the judge will throw it out, since most vehicle speedometers are no more accurate than +/- 5 MPH. In some cases, just promising to defend yourself in court can make the officer let you off with a warning. He doesn't want to hassle with going to court any more than you do. If he doesn't show up, you'll win automatically, too.
 
After about a year of experimentation, I have discovered that driving the posted speed limit rarely adds more than three to five minutes to your drive, especially in a busy metro are like Dallas-Fort Worth.

That depends on the length of your trip. I, too, have slowed down over the years but would like to make a heartfelt request to all drivers.

PLEASE STAY OUT OF THE LEFT LANE IF YOU WISH TO DRIVE THE SPEED LIMIT. IF IT'S A TWO LANE ROAD, PULL OVER AND LET THE 150 CARS BEHIND YOU PASS.

Whew, I feel much better now. Not all drivers are in the moseying mood and shouldn't be held up by those who are. This is why they make the roads with more than one lane. Seems that since I left CA, I have realized that other states don't teach that the left lane is for passing.
 
Laser isn't fool proof, it can be jammed and legally so in most states. The FCC doesn't regulate light.
 
your right

A schmuck shoots a dog A pilot lands on a taxiway at seatac , Northwest pilots are drunk in cockpit,Russian pilot allows son to control plane plane crashes,
there are screw ups in all jobs . Some have a greater impact than others
Oh and after pilots are armed you dont think eventually one braintrust is gonna do something dumb?? Chas
 
Yea, so laser can be defeated.

The trick to good ticket evasion, is driving alert. Knowing what the cop cars look like in your area. Keeping your eyes peeled. Using cruise control so you can maintain a set speed like 9 over and so that you can keep your eyes on the road...looking for traffic and traffic cops. Heck, on an interstate...all you gotta do is look ahead. If you see a cop car, kick off your cruise and hit the Overdrive Button to take the car out of overdrive. You'll slow down enough to get into the zone where most of the cops aren't writing tickets...and if that aint slowing you down fast enough, jam on the breaks.

I did that the other morning. Saw the shape of a crown vic sitting in median, back lit for a second by an oncoming cars head lights. I was going ten over, kicked out the cruise and pushed in on the brakes. The dumass in the pickup truck behind me was tailgating so close, his head lights were warming up my bald spot. He didn't see the cop...must have seen my brake lights come on and cussed as he just swerved without a signal into the left lane of the interstate and gunned it. Man was it beautifull how those red and blue strobe lights came on so quick like that. You think pickup truck man figured out why I was slowing down...THEN! HEHEHEHEHEHE! Dumass.

Here are some of my thoughts on speeding and speed detection and speed detection, detection...and keep in mind I tossed my passport radar detector in the bottom drawer of my tool box 4 years ago!

1. Never speed around turns or up over cresting hills...such as like on county highways. Good places for them instant on radar guys to hide. If you can't see what's around the bend or over a hill...just kick out the cruise momentarily. I have already crested a hill on a state highway doing almost 80, spotted a crown vic on my side of the road, facing in my same direction of travel. I jammed on the brakes hard the instant I saw the car and I actually got to see the hand of the county mountie as he reached up to push the trigger on the instant on radar as viewed through his rear window. Denied. I normally don't go that fast, but we were being harrassed by a guy in a pick up truck and I decided to pass some other cars so this guy could pester them for a while.

2. Never speed when you are all by yourself, on a road at night. You are fair game for instant on and moving radar when by yourself. You can't see where the cops are...and all they gotta do is zap you. No warning from other motorists tail lights to cue you in either. Even if you have a radar detector...this is prime time for instant on radar to nail you.

3. Find some dumass speeding with a radar detector. One of those jerks that never gets out of the left lane. Follow him from the right lane about 6 to 8 car lengths behind. He's doing 85 and you are just pacing him from the right lane. You see his brake lights...you slow down. While you are doing this...note that his vehicle blocks the direct line of sight of your vehicle from the median. So if a cop was using LIDAR OR RADAR to speed detect...he could never get you from the median....left lane guy IS BLOCKING. I call that a radar picket. This also effectively blocks moving radar from the oncoming direction also. Keep in mind, cops coming up from behind or clocking from the onramp side of an overpass are still going to be able to clock you, but hopefully if you keep 6 to 8 carlengths behind the slack jawed yokel in the speeding vehicle ahead of you...the cop clocking cars from the on ramp will paint him and cause him to hit his brakes...allowing you time to observe this and slow down. Following me so far. The rule of thumb is...follow a speeder, don't be first in line, observe brake lights. Don't get to far behind the guy that you are following...as this puts you back out in the open. Keep in mind VASCAR and AIRCRAFT clocking nullifies this method...so be alert.

4. Keep a continous scan going. Scan that rear view mirror for MR VASCAR. Look ahead in the median. Look ahead for aircraft circling the highway low in one spot. Look for crown victorias and Impalas. Look for brake lights up ahead. When in doubt...kick out the cruise. I see now, they got low profile rack lights...so low profile, they are smaller than bicycle racks now...real hard to see.

5. Be careful of oncoming semi's on county and state two lane roads.A cop could be following the semi close behind and waiting for you to pass by to zap ya. I noticed the cops like turning that moving radar at about a 45 degree angle and following a semi for cover. You go blowing by at 75 and ooooops there it is. You be nailed.

6. Lazer takes a while to get a lock on. They are aiming it at your license plate or your head light refletors. The cop introduces a bit of an error with his jitters (too much coffee?) So while they are trying to get a lock on you, they are hosing your whole car with invisible light. So keep any laser detector equiped radar detector as low on your dash as possible, cause they are aiming at your grill. Don't block the little window on the front of the lazer detector with any thing like a windshield wiper or a plastic Jesus. Your LAZER detector has to see the lazer the cop is pointing at you. Keep your windshield clean. Your detector cant detect lazer by looking though a dirty windshield.

7. Lazer only works in a straight line. He has to see you...so you should be able to see him. Be observant. I recieved a LAZER alert once when I was so far away from the cop it had to be a mile and a half. It was a reflection off of the car ahead of me and the cop was on an overpass looking down at this car with his lazer gun. he was actually standing next to his own car...looking down on the highway clocking cars. The other overpass hid him from you. So what you had here was two over passes side by side...lets say the east and west bound lanes of a belt way. the cop was using one of the overpasses to hide his location. He lazered a car at least a mile ahead of me, if not more. I caught the reflection and got an alert on my detector. Slowed down. Saw the overpasses coming...went under the first one and there was THE MAN on the second one.

8. Radar will bend around obstacles (the signal spreads in width and height as it covers distance) so you can get an alert, even if you are not line of sight with the radar gun. It also reflects off of guard rails, semi trucks and other cars. If you get what you think is a false alarm...but don't see a patrol car. Be CAREFUL the next sound you hear may be a lock on, as you crest the small over pass and bingo there's the cop.

9. Police aren't dumb. That place on your commute where you always get the false alarm from the door openers of the grocery store or the walmart? Cops know to hide in those areas so you disregard the alarm as false...bingo you been had. Fortunately there is a radar detector that has what is known as a bogey counter. It counts how many signals are present and tells you this. So when you go by your favorite spot where there is a false alarm on your detector every morning and it normally reads TWO bogies and you see THREE OR FOUR...be prepared to slow down or get nailed by your false alarm.

10. If you use a detector, just plan on braking every time it goes off. Don't sit there and try to analyse the signal or you will be nailed. Never think about the lazer signal...just hit the brakes, it's rare to get a false lazer signal...unless you are driving by the RVR machine by the airport.

11. If you use a detector and you get busted...assume you are not going to be able to talk yourself out of a ticket...intent to speed is written all over you holmes. If I were a cop and clocked you speeding, then pulled you over and saw your detector...I'd just tell you to sit right back and make yourself comfortable, cause me and that cross pen are going to be writing for a while.

12. LAZER is not shot through a windshield or through rain or fog or smoke or snow. Limitations of light waves I guess.

13. Slant range IS a factor with radar. The more on coming you are the better. If they are clocking you at any angles other than head on...they got to use a table to calculate slant range. (this may be true for LIDAR also)

14. If you have had drinks...Not advocating drinking and driving...but don't speed. If you are below the legal limit for BAC but just don't want to be embarrased by having to do a field sobriety test to get your speeding ticket....just use the radar detector to keep you alert and drive like a saint. Having all lights working on the car helps as does using turn signals.

15. Find out what kind of radar is in use in your area and on your commute. In the village of ashwaubenon...the ashwaubenon public safety officers use full time "on", moving radar alot...so it's like cop detector. In Green Bay however, they occasionally use lazer or the stationary gun type radar. So they gots to be sitting in one place to clock you in Green Bay. None of this lazy driving around and clocking people by accident crap, for the green bay cops...they gotta sit for their prey.

16. Most moving radars can only clock you from the head on or from a sitting position. They usually cannot lock on to you from the same direction of travel. IE you will not usually be clocked from behind, by a moving cop with moving radar. They got that tecnology out there but it is expensive, new and has bugs. With most police departments...radar units is like luggage. Once they got it, it's like almost forever. So it takes a while for new stuff to come in vogue.

17. There is no moving laser. Half the time I seen lazer dudes, they were shooting out of side windows in the median or standing outside their cars on overpasses.
 
Unfortunately all people remember is getting that speeding ticket.

Of course I remember my ticket...I got to use the Lazer and clock traffic with a cool cop b/c of my speeding habit. I'm not complaining about it! I look at that ticket as a "Lazer rental fee" :D

Of course people only remember getting a speeding ticket b/c for the majority of society, speeding tickets are the only contact they have with police officers.
 

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