Air Wisc Questions

[last call]

I am trying to decide if I should accept a job offer with AWAC. Just wanted some answers if people had them?
1) What is the minimum days off for a reserve and a hard line holder?
2) How long can I expect to sit on reserve?
3) Anything to the 70 seater rumor?
4) Are upgrades really runnung 4-6 years?

Thanks for the answers.

 

[Beechnut]

1.) 12 and 12

2.)Maybe not so long as it use to be as a bunch of folks are leaving.

3.)No.

4.)Yes.

 

[Beer&Brauts]

Air Wisconsin is kind of a crap shoot right now. It won't be the same airline 1 year from now. If you live out east this will be a good place to be. Growth is still a possibility, but we wouldn't hear a word about it until it shows up in a press release - so who knows.
Not only do we not know what our 3rd and possibly 4th base will be (most likely ORF and RIC), we don't even know how big PHL and DCA are going to be - so base seniority is anybody's guess. DCA may go senior for FOs, as we have hired quite a few Indy guys. I wouldn't suspect you'd sit reserve long at any of the other bases.

 

[J32driver]

3) Nope... only becuase the rumor is for 90 seats... not 70.

4) If you take the 1st available upgrade, its just about 3 years right now. What it will be in the future... who knows. Could be 7 months.... could be 8 years. You'll never know until your typed and complete IOE.

 

[dueguard1]

How Long is training and where at?

Is the hotel covered by Air Whisky? Pay during training?

 

[Kenny]

Yes you will get paid through training; 2.5 hours of FO 1st year pay from the day you start indoc in Toon Town until you start your 1st IOE trip, which is when flight pay and perdiem kicks in.

You'll also get all accomodation paid for while you're in training.

 

[Mayday911]

PHL is rumored to have close to 300 crews, DCA and the other bases (ORF, RIC?) will be smaller than that.

PHL opens Sept 1 and DCA is 1 NOV, I think. Anybody's guess about the others.

I have been with the company just shy of three years and I am very senior as an F/O. Most people leaving seem to be junior to me, so reserve for an F/O may not be that long at all....if you take the job offer now.

One positive...if you are planning on moving, you will most likely be based at IAD on paper and then displaced to someplace new. The company will pay for your move up to the distance you are displaced, and pay for mileage to move 2 vehicles.

That pay stated previously was 2.5 hours per day, including scheduled days off.

Mayday

 

[last call]

more questions

Does it still seem like a good airline to goto? I know there is a lot of uncertainty in the industry, this considered how is life there?

Since you get 12 days off, is it a 4 on 3 off or can they give you something less? I am just wondering if they can give you a single day off instead of doing it in groups if 2 or more consecutive days.

Training pay.... you get 2.5 times the F.O. rate for seven days a week not just the five you are in class?

Do you get paid for holidays?

How do you pick seniority in class?

I am excited about coming to Air Wisc. just the typical concerns of leaving a bad scene to go someplace new.

 

[TWheat61]

Does it still seem like a good airline to goto? I know there is a lot of uncertainty in the industry, this considered how is life there?

With all of the attrition, now would be a good time to get on. We have less than 800 pilots now, so if their was any substantial growth, upgrade could be quick.

Since you get 12 days off, is it a 4 on 3 off or can they give you something less? I am just wondering if they can give you a single day off instead of doing it in groups if 2 or more consecutive days.

For the most part its 4 on 3 off, but you can get 5 on 4 off. You bid for your reserve line, they have all different types.

Training pay.... you get 2.5 times the F.O. rate for seven days a week not just the five you are in class?
You'll basically get your 75 hour guarantee.

Do you get paid for holidays? NO

How do you pick seniority in class? Birthday Oldest - Youngest

I am excited about coming to Air Wisc. just the typical concerns of leaving a bad scene to go someplace new.

 

[last call]

Thanks

 

[Mayday911]

You can get a single day off in a line if it is the last day of the bid period or the first day of the next.

 

[Wacko]

How many pilots are there now and does anyone know how many more they plan on hiring this year?

Any word on how the US Air/ AWA merger is going to affect AWAC? I mean especially since they are on the board at US Air? Talks about growth?

Is the pilot group treated descent? Good contract? AWAC seems to be one airline you don't hear about, at least on this forum.

 

[Twotter76]

Current list shows about 870 pilots give or take a few. They are continuing to hire in classes that seem to average about 12 a month. Attrition is very very high right now - has been averaging almost 30 a month. There are always rumors of growth (90 seaters seem to be a recurring rumor) but so far nothing concrete has surfaced. The merger is the unknown - all we know for sure is DCA and PHL bases everything else is just so much speculation. Hopefully a west coast base might come out of the merger so half of the pilot group won't have to commute across the country.

I have worked for three regionals and of the three I think ZW treats us pilot types best. It isn't the way it used to be, but then again what is? I would put our contract up against anyone elses except Comair. Our union is in the process of making some new agreements with the company that will allow of to have one of the more liberal commuter clauses that I have heard of in the regional ranks. Also there is the continued greivance to get our old contract back (big money! well sort of.) Our union works hard to try and make the best of what we are dealt and I think they do a good job of it.

If you want the quick upgrade this is not the place for you (though it will come down significantly over the next few months) but if you are like me and value QOL over a fast upgrade at a crappy job that you hate then this is the place to be. PM me if I help. Good luck.

Twotter76

 

[Crossky]

I don't know about the upgrade time getting shorter guys. For me it'll be 3 yrs Sept 9 and I'm 27 spots away from pain and torture as a jr rsv ca. If I get it on the next realignment, it's not likely to happen until late fall. We're trimming down the 146 fleet to 4 or 5 for the ski season, then down to zero. Bae-146 pilots will continue to get the ca slots (they have to commute anyway) and 110 more of them will bump us less senior pilots down come next May. We have no official guarantee that US will take all 70 of our CRJ200's, although we still have the right to fly up to 70 jets for them. Of course you need to consider attrition as well. This all adds up to it being a crap shoot, but my glass is half empty, not half full right now. If you live in PHL, DC, or Norfolk VA your commute would be doable of course.

Right now I'm really better off going corporate. A good corporate job will net you at least RJ CA salary as an FO, more nights a home, better bennies, and no commute. It's a no brainer after you get over your ego driven airline pilot jet jockey dreams. Getting the 'good corporate job' is the trick, one many of us are trying to learn.

 

[miles otoole]

I don't know about the upgrade time getting shorter guys. For me it'll be 3 yrs Sept 9 and I'm 27 spots away from pain and torture as a jr rsv ca. If I get it on the next realignment, it's not likely to happen until late fall. We're trimming down the 146 fleet to 4 or 5 for the ski season, then down to zero. Bae-146 pilots will continue to get the ca slots (they have to commute anyway) and 110 more of them will bump us less senior pilots down come next May. We have no official guarantee that US will take all 70 of our CRJ200's, although we still have the right to fly up to 70 jets for them. Of course you need to consider attrition as well. This all adds up to it being a crap shoot, but my glass is half empty, not half full right now. If you live in PHL, DC, or Norfolk VA your commute would be doable of course.

Right now I'm really better off going corporate. A good corporate job will net you at least RJ CA salary as an FO, more nights a home, better bennies, and no commute. It's a no brainer after you get over your ego driven airline pilot jet jockey dreams. Getting the 'good corporate job' is the trick, one many of us are trying to learn.

Very sound advice. You are tied to a company which is still bankrupt and could very easily be out of business in a year. What will 200 turbine PIC hours get you in the 121 world? Ask the former Indy Air CAs who are begging to fly for COEX, AE and MESA. Air Wizzers might think about 135 or corporate while they can.

 

[crashpad]

Youare tied to a company which is still bankrupt and could very easily be out of business in a year. Air Wizzers might think about 135 or corporate while they can.

I'm sorry you didn't get hired by AW. Being an airline pilot is a profession not everyone 's cut out for. You have nothing to be ashamed of and can continue to make a valuable contribution to the general aviation industry. Best of luck to you.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I'm sorry you didn't get hired by AW.

Aside from the possibly insulting use of the term "Air Wizzers", what did miles say that was so inaccurate or insulting that you felt it necessary to respond like that?

 

[crashpad]

This is a regional board and I take it personal when pilots use fractus arguements to sell corporate flying. There's a night and day difference between the two, and yes, Airline Pilots ARE better!

 

[DirkkDiggler]

We have no official guarantee that US will take all 70 of our CRJ200's, although we still have the right to fly up to 70 jets for them.

Crosky, You are mistaken here. We have a guaranteed contract with Airways for 70 aircraft with the possibility for more. The 70 is not negotiable though. That changes things a bit from what you were saying.

 

[1Learjetway]

This is a regional board and I take it personal when pilots use fractus arguements to sell corporate flying. There's a night and day difference between the two, and yes, Airline Pilots ARE better!

We have close to a dozen ex-airline pilots where I work. I'm sure glad they don't share your attitude!

 

[crashpad]

We have close to a dozen ex-airline pilots where I work.QUOTE]

That's why they're not airline pilots...they are corporate pilots. Simple logic.
Hey, what are you doing here anyway...Now Shoo!....Shoo away to the corporate forum!
(man, you don't see me on their forum stirring up trouble. They just love the airlines I guess. reminds me of a corp guy my wife ran into right after 9-11. He said "Corporate is where the future of aviation is at and your husband should quit the airline flying ASAP for corporate!")

 

[1Learjetway]

Well Crash...I think I'll stick around and read and post on any of the fourms that I wish.

 

[Crossky]

This is a regional board and I take it personal when pilots use fractus arguements to sell corporate flying. There's a night and day difference between the two, and yes, Airline Pilots ARE better!

Well, then, I guess that when and if I leave Air Wisconsin for a Corporate Pilot position which gets me home more nights, with more weekends and holidays off, better bennies, no commute, and RJ CA pay at a minimum as a newbie right seater, I'll have to compensate somehow for not being as good as a Airline Pilot anymore. Got any suggestions Crashpad?

 

[RP170]

Very sound advice. You are tied to a company which is still bankrupt and could very easily be out of business in a year. What will 200 turbine PIC hours get you in the 121 world? Ask the former Indy Air CAs who are begging to fly for COEX, AE and MESA. Air Wizzers might think about 135 or corporate while they can.

Begging to fly for Mesa and AE? The only companies that I know of that us Indy guys are going to are COEX and CHQ/Shuttle/Republic. Places with growth potential and good QOL. Some were hired as captains at Pinnacle too. None were desperate enough to go there as FO's though.

 

[crashpad]

"ego driven airline pilot jet jockey dreams"

Crosskys' words are poetry! Honestly, that is exactly what's been filling my head from my earliest memory. I truely love flying really big airplanes that serve the common man. Truth be told, the dedicated corporate pilot possesses many skills the committed airline pilot lacks, but no pilot is omnipotent. What bothers me is that after all you've invested in this industry, you're considering taking a pass simply because of the bumps in the rode. If you stay through this period of chaos you'll be rewarded with the benefits you seek: stability, income, free time, and the aesthetic satisfaction that comes with so many people relying on you to perform to the highest degree.

 

[Crossky]

Crosskys' words are poetry! Honestly, that is exactly what's been filling my head from my earliest memory. I truely love flying really big airplanes that serve the common man. Truth be told, the dedicated corporate pilot possesses many skills the committed airline pilot lacks, but no pilot is omnipotent. What bothers me is that after all you've invested in this industry, you're considering taking a pass simply because of the bumps in the rode. If you stay through this period of chaos you'll be rewarded with the benefits you seek: stability, income, free time, and the aesthetic satisfaction that comes with so many people relying on you to perform to the highest degree.

Wow, I'm actually inspired a little bit! Seriously I am. Hey, I know like anyone that a good corporate job with pay and QOL is hard to find. Probably at least half of the corporate outfits don't operate with the flight standards, CRM, and seniority driven staffing I'm used to with the airlines. You have to deal with office politics and play kissy with the boss in corporate too. I do like my days off with no work responsibilites also. I don't consider myself a primma donna, but I get that reception when applying to corporate flight departments. I think they're a little jealous and proud, and just a touch insecure. I think corporate pilots look down on airline pilots a little because they have to 'wear many hats': flight dept manager, scheduler, dispatcher, maintenance manager, caterer, lav cleaner, janitor, detailer; wow, maybe I should stay with the airlines . Just because airline pilots don't do those jobs it doesn't mean they're not capable of doing them. QOL now at the expense of more $$ later? We'll see if they call.

 

[last call]

Any new info on how US Air and America West is going to affect growth at Air Wisc?
I am starting class in August and I am wondering if anything new was in the works?
I heard rumor from friends in class that MKE may turn into a pilot base since it is already a MX base. Truth or crap.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

it is very difficult to look into the future about what it is going to be like around here in a year. mostly because U and AmerW haven't got it figured out yet. Right, it is the owners intension to perform as smooth a transition as possible to our new U operation. After they emerge from bankrupsy, I am sure that we will beid on more and bigger airplanes. Whether we get them or not we will see. About MKE, the Fleet manager for the 146's and the Chief pilot dropped by our recurrent class this week and said this. "Nothing in the forseeable future, but I won't give up hope until I see someone else's name printed on the top of that building". What does that mean? Who the f*** knows... At this point congradulations, welcome, and good luck in training. I may be sitting in the next room going through RJ retraining while your there so stop y and say hi.

DD

PS Don't let the negative people get you down this is a great place to be even if you are going to be an FO for a bit longer than you probably want.

 

[crashpad]

There are numerous indicators which suggest Midwest Express could fold up by the end of the year. May ZW has a contingency plan that includes such an event.

 

[Wacko]

There are numerous indicators which suggest Midwest Express could fold up by the end of the year. May ZW has a contingency plan that includes such an event.

Are you referring to Midwest airlines? They are going to hire off the street here in the next couple months. It is going to be for the remainder of the 717's they are scheduled to get. I haven't heard any rumor of them being belly up any time soon.

What indicators?