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Air Tran or CAL? haven't we been here before?

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You don't know who is the better choice until you die and your pension was still paying out (not many of those left).

Upgrade is running 2 years and 4 months as Ty mentioned. Was on the bus to the parking lot today and ran into a buddy of mine I flew with years ago. He missed upgrade by like 3 or 4 numbers and he's been here 2 years and almost 4 months.

For people hired now, expect 3 to 3 1/2 years. A lot of people bypass upgrade to keep the schedules and non-stop hiring and growth for a good while yet to come means upgrade won't slow for quite some time, barring some extreme change of aircraft delivery plans.

I didn't know CAL retirement numbers were so high either, that's great that people will upgrade that quickly!

A great choice either way, good luck to your buddy!
 
Sorry critter ty, you ain't flying to Amsterdam anytime soon. Just more domestic in and out of ATL. If you're lucky, you can fly up to Newark or Houston, and ride CAL over there. But I don't think we have an international j/s agreement with valujet.

Uppercrust, move in for the final blow. I think critter is down for the count :D
 
Yuppyguppy said:
That's okay I will....it's just good ol valuejet at it's finest
Click to expand...

You know....Every now and then I log in to read this board with the hopes of finding some intelligent discussion. However, mostly what I find are idiots like yourself. (sea horse and others). Please find something else to do. Get a hobby, read a book, beat off, I don't care. For god's sake please don't reproduce, you are thinning the gene pool.

Please, stay off the net.
Thanks for your cooperation

Wes
 
Ditto

Wesb737fo said:
Please find something else to do. Get a hobby, read a book, beat off, I don't care. For god's sake please don't reproduce, you are thinning the gene pool.

Please, stay off the net.
Thanks for your cooperation

Wes
Click to expand...

'Nuff said.
'Props
 
ToThePain said:
Pick whoever hires you first and then whoever works best for your family. While the above information is technically correct, its does not paint the entire picture. I was hired in April at CAL and have just picked up the 777. The pay for that is over $71/hour. I can not speak to the upgrade time at Air Tran, if 3 years is the standard thats awesome. I can tell you that looking at the last snap shot at CAL I SHOULD move to the left seat in 4 years as a conversion Captain. I picked CAL because I live close to Newark and would not have to commute. The average 777 reserve pilot gets called just over once per month, meaning that I should expect to be home around 23 days per month. Take care of your family (if you have one) and let the cards play out. You will never know who is the better choice until about 15 years from now.
Click to expand...

Admit it PM....you took the 777 because you are a slovenly lazy SOB. But...with that said...I'm glad you did pick the 777 because now I will move up one number in EWR on the 737! :D

Hope all is well dude.

-Neal
 
Go ahead, let him reproduce.

Makes it easier for my kids to get the grades that win scholarships when the stupid kids keep the curve low... :D
 
As a relatively inexeperienced pilot I would be honored to fly at either Continental or Airtan. If given my pick though, I would go with Continental. Bigger jets and better destinations. A couple of friends in the crashpad I am at all agree on Continental. It's not putting Airtan down but Continental just seems a better bet long term, while Airtran seems like an also ran and just not very prestigous.
 
instructordude said:
.....while Airtran seems like an also ran and just not very prestigous.
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?Que?
 
instructordude said:
As a relatively inexeperienced pilot I would be honored to fly at either Continental or Airtan. If given my pick though, I would go with Continental. Bigger jets and better destinations. A couple of friends in the crashpad I am at all agree on Continental. It's not putting Airtan down but Continental just seems a better bet long term, while Airtran seems like an also ran and just not very prestigous.
Click to expand...
"not putting Airtran down but..."
Not to put you down but spend more than a week in this business before you start running your ignorant suck hole about things you know nothing about.
 
BluDevAv8r said:
Admit it PM....you took the 777 because you are a slovenly lazy SOB. But...with that said...I'm glad you did pick the 777 because now I will move up one number in EWR on the 737! :D

Hope all is well dude.

-Neal
Click to expand...
Hope all is well with you too. I'm lookng forward to more Italian in Houston. I'm happy to help out my fellow man and brothers. I flew 96 hours last month, I would love to share that with you.
PM
 
instructordude said:
A couple of friends in the crashpad I am at all agree on Continental.
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Well, in ten or fifteen years, if both of those airlines are still around, maybe you'll get to make that decision. Until then, quit running your scheiss-eater, and deliver those pizzas before they get cold.



.


.
 
Da' Tranny is a safer place to be, CAL has no hedges in place at this point. If fuel prices go lower (much) the mgt (CAL) will look very good by not locking in to prices in the 60's. I think it was Ty who posted that Da' Tranny locked into a large percentage of their fuel in the low to mid 60's. Oil is down quite a bit this week but still trading in the low 70's. Da Tranny is the the only place to be if you don't want to fly boxes besides SWA.
 
I was taking my info was that nice little company magazine that CAL puts out, a guy in my 'pad gets it. He works for mainline and Larry said a few months ago that the mismanagement thought fuel prices were too high so there was no need to hedge. It's in there. I read the whole mag. I guess they had a change of heart.
 
Don't worry, Crusty, in ten years, you'll still be living in your parent's basement and picking up extra money on the side as a "Chippenwhale".

Watch out for those "harpoons".

.
 
ToThePain said:
Hope all is well with you too. I'm lookng forward to more Italian in Houston. I'm happy to help out my fellow man and brothers. I flew 96 hours last month, I would love to share that with you.
PM
Click to expand...

I think it is I who would be sharing some with you my friend. 98 hours + 7 deadhead last month. But only 1 rolled day off. :)

Come to the city sometime and we will get real Italian...even better than that wannabe stuff we had in IAH.

-Neal
 
Neal,

Is is FUN? Seems to me the CAL hiring has put a spark in some smiles that wasn't there 2 years ago. You guys might just be the "sleeper" out there that raises the bar for the pax guys in 3 years...
 
Don't listen to critter ty. Come over to CAL and fly what you want. Fly domestic transcons, fly to Europe / S. America, or fly Asia. Fly the 737, 757/767, or 777. Fly what you want.

Critter has to fly with redneck Georgia hillbillies. How is that ty, you valujet scab? You like it?

Come on Uppercrust, help me out, I'm going for TKO. Knock him out now.
 
Nice change in verbiage..No more blowing huh??

"Come on Uppercrust, help me out, I'm going for TKO. Knock him out now"

Just like a married couple...

"Critter has to fly with redneck Georgia hillbillies. How is that ty, you valujet scab? You like it?" Nice sentence structure..For a ten year old.

RV
 
AlbieF15 said:
Neal,

Is is FUN? Seems to me the CAL hiring has put a spark in some smiles that wasn't there 2 years ago. You guys might just be the "sleeper" out there that raises the bar for the pax guys in 3 years...
Click to expand...

It absolutely is fun Albie. Great crews so far (front and back end). Great destinations. Reserve has been tough this summer but we all knew it would be like this. Should have a line by October at the latest though and no one can complain about 3 months on reserve although a buddy hired 2 weeks ahead of me had a line at 6 weeks. We will actually be in negotiations well before 2009. Lots of changes over here, and all for the better in my view.

You best be dropping me a line if you have any NYC layovers. Unfortunately we don't get down your way on the 737 but I might be doing some GA flying down there so of course I'd holler at you if I do.

-Neal
 
SkiFishFly said:
Airtran is hardly a "glorified regional" as you put it.


Some pay numbers from Airline pilot central

AirTran
Yr FO CAPT
1 43 102
2 56 102
3 61 106 (most likely upgrade to captain by end of yr 3)
4 66 112
5 72 120
6 74 124
12 79 153



CO (737)
Yr FO Capt
1 30 30 (boy that looks a lot like regional pay)
2 55 132
3 64 133
4 73 134
5 80 135
6 88 137
12 98 144 Upgrade prob around year 8

Airtran insurance is rather expensive but at least you are covered within one month of being hired.


....
Click to expand...


That's about as useless comparison as I've seen.

Look, go to who hires you first, then you can worry about the other when/if they call. Also, if you live in ATL and don't want to move, there's a lot to be said about living in domicle.

All that said, that pay rate and upgrade time isn't anywhere near reality at CAL. The $30/hr for first year is true, but holding a line almost immediately on the 737 and after a whopping 2 months on the 756 puts first year pay closer to 40k than 30k. Still sh*t, but it helps having a few thousand extra dollars at the end of the year.

Poor schedule? The 737 out of EWR might have early shows and late finishes, but it has a lot of variety to manipulate your schedule if you want to. My buddy got a conversion line (on his second month on line) with 14 days off 85 hrs of block and wknds off. Probably not typical, but not too bad.

The 756 lines barely qualify as work. Whoever said the trips are sh*tty is smoking crack. VAST majority are 3 day trips to Europe. 1800-2100 check ins, 24hr overnight in some really nice hotels and cities, and then fly back home to stroll into EWR between 1100-1400, before the afternoon WX hits. I know there are more productive places out there, but 2 leg 3day trips worth 15-20hrs ain't too bad. If you want to do domestic, it does exist on the plane, but not too much in EWR.

The 777, that's just a jobs program. Don't think too many people actually work. Newhires will be going into it, in theory. There are 17 open positions that were not even filled on this last bid. Still crap pay for first year, but you aren't going to be exactly busting your rear end.

2nd year pay on all these aircraft (and they are all available 2nd year) is more than Airtran. Captain upgrades are nearly identical (within a year or so) and CAL pay (approx $141/hr blended rate on RSV on 4th year pay) is considerably higher than Airtran's ($112/hr). Hey, if you're going to get paid 1000hrs a year, I figure you'd want an extra $29,000 at the end of it, but to each their own.

Airtran's pay catches the SNB pay at CAL by year 12, but that overlooks LNB and WB pay at CAL (don't even have to leave the 737 to get LNB pay.. $163/hr at year 12).

HTH
 
seahorse said:
Don't listen to critter ty. Come over to CAL and fly what you want. Fly domestic transcons, fly to Europe / S. America, or fly Asia. Fly the 737, 757/767, or 777. Fly what you want.

Critter has to fly with redneck Georgia hillbillies. How is that ty, you valujet scab? You like it?

Come on Uppercrust, help me out, I'm going for TKO. Knock him out now.
Click to expand...

Just curious, how do you get a TKO in flightinfo.com? Also, in your world are CAL scabs better than "valujet" scabs?
 
B-J-J Fighter said:
Da' Tranny is a safer place to be, CAL has no hedges in place at this point. If fuel prices go lower (much) the mgt (CAL) will look very good by not locking in to prices in the 60's. I think it was Ty who posted that Da' Tranny locked into a large percentage of their fuel in the low to mid 60's. Oil is down quite a bit this week but still trading in the low 70's. Da Tranny is the the only place to be if you don't want to fly boxes besides SWA.
Click to expand...

Da freeking Tranny be da place fer me but if you gots to be doin the trips crossin dem Oshenns, or you jus love livvin in Houstin or Newerk, then goods luck to you, bros and sissies.

You jus gots to look at it all, bro, like da bases, and da upgrades and like da trainin and da pay, and then, like ole wise Ty Guy says, you aint gonna like be knowin til like your like really old, or like really laid off and stuff.

But like most of da peeps at da Tranny be sayin AWWWWWW YEEAAAAHHH!!!!!
 

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