Air Tran gives 3 year old the boot

[wms]

Each of my kids has acted up on a flight, once. ONCE!

 

[BVT94]

I'm amazed at the ignorance of these posts! I really feel for your families. When there's a news article writtten about a pilot drinking before flying or an incident or accident, everyone jumps on here demanding we give this person the benefit of the doubt since reporters often skew the truth. And yet in this case, a three yr old doesn't deserve the same?

I read this morning that the child had eaten a bag of Cheetos before getting on the flight AND the parents mentioned that the child has recently had a procedure done to help an inner ear problem. Have any of you had a blocked ear on a flight? From what I understand this child had just come off of another flight. Can you imagine feeling the pain from the first flight and then having to get on another airplane? I'd probably be screaming too! Would you like it if your boss told you that, after landing with a blocked air, that you were going to get on another airplane or else face disciplinary action--say a few lashings for all you harda$$es? Why not consider the possibility that this child may not have felt well?

Cheetos are significant since many children who have inner ear problems also have food allergies that contribute to the fluid behind their ears. Cheetos are loaded with chemicals and dairy, both of which cause serious behavior problems in children. My child, for example, is a angel until she eats something with corn in it. WIthin one hour, she is screaming, kicking and flailing. This outburst may last for 15 minutes or so. And then she is back to normal. In absence of the offending food, this doesn't happen.

So next time you are acting a little cranky because you are tired and you mouth off a little to your FO, imagine your boss coming around a slapping you, putting you in time out. Or the next time you yell at your wife and kids after a stressful day at work, they lock you in your room to "think about what you've just done." Wouldn't you like them to have some understanding and compassion for you? Children deserve nothing less.

So stop using your children to boost your ego. Beating and controlling them doesn't not make you a man. It does make you look very insecure, not unlike the Captain who bosses around his flightcrew to prove he's in control. The real man doesn't need to demand respect because he already has it.

 

[wms]

Each of my children ate Cheetos, once. ONCE!

 

[skiandsurf]

From what I understand this child had just come off of another flight. Can you imagine feeling the pain from the first flight and then having to get on another airplane? .

Just a question for anyone that can answer this....I thought the flight was Fort Myers to Boston. I checked the Airtran website and this is a direct flight, not a connection.

So was this a direct flight?

and did the kid just come off another flight?

 

[capt. megadeth]

I got an idea.....if eating Cheetos makes your kid scream, kick and freak out.....DON'T GIVE THEM CHEETOS.

Whoa! Here's another idea....if your kid just had a procedure done on their ears.....DON'T FLY WITH THEM....DRIVE.

I know it's difficult to use common sense these days but for Christ's sake!

 

[BVT94]

That's kinda the point I was getting to, Capt. M. As the disciplinarian, a major part of my role is figuring out, to the best of my abilities, what makes my child tick, in addition to what sets her off. I know that in order to have an enjoyable time my child (and my husband, I might add). they need to be well-rested, fed nutritious foods, ample exercise, and not be sick. Otherwise someone is going to be crabby. My husband can fend for himself, but my four yo is nowhere near understanding all of this. Rather than punishing her for what she cannot possibly understand, I choose to make sure that these conditions are met before I put her in a situation where she needs to be well-behaved. Finally after seven years of marriage, I've figured out that my husband and I should not argue if one of us is tired, since it's likely that after some rest, we will feel much more amiable. So, truly, we are not that much unlike our children, we are just better equipped to access our mental situation. Remember, this child has only been on the earth for 3 YEARS! Children have the capacity to think of themselves *only* until they are on average 6-7 years old. It's their survival instinct. Expecting them to understand that no one on the flight wants to hear their screaming means nothing to them. AND trying to talk to them while they are screaming will get no results. They only learn when you talk to them while they are calm. This is very simply child psychology, of which I wish all parents were required to read before having kids.

Had I been the Captain of this flight, I would have not taken more than a couple minute delay. Having looked into the eyes of an obvious distressed child, I would have ask them to try the next flight or consider spending the night and trying again the next day. At the same time, I think the parents were not as savvy as they could have been. I doubt this is a case of spoiled child, rather a misunderstood one.

I'm not sure if the child had been on a previous flight that day, but he had flown before, potentially with an ear problem. Hypothetically, if that he had only been on one other flight in his whole 3 years of living, and it was painful for him, undoubtedly he might protest a little on his next trip. Even animals learn from one bad experience.

I'm shocked at the numbers of you that think spanking is ok. I'm also curious if you think spousal abuse is ok. I'm guessing no. What hypocrisy! They both involve abusing someone to get them to do what you want. The wife has the option of leaving, but the child doesn't. It's sick, really. Beating someone smaller than you... Besides, I know from my upbringing, that spanking *might* get the results you want if front of you, but you never know what might happen when no one is watching. I prefer to talk to my child like she's a fellow human being (shocker--she is!) and teach her right from wrong so that she does what right because it's right, not because she is afraid of being hurt. Physically, mentally or emotionally.

 

[skiandsurf]

I'm also curious if you think spousal abuse is ok.

Not OK, but sometimes necessary.









Relax, I was just kidding.

 

[eddie]

The parents should have begged to be let off the flight. They should have known that the tantrum was preventing the departure, and used common sense.

I wonder what they expected the airline to do. Delay the flight until their child was ready to go?

BVT94, I think most of the posters on this thread were placing blame on the parents, not the child. These parents needed to know when to call it a day.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Having ambitions, motivations, hopes and dreams beyond just "wanting to be a mom"....ugh....you know there is more to life than having kids.....A LOT more to life.

Sure is...but you can't do both at the same time!!!

 

[BVT94]

Sure, I agree that the parents should have done things differently. What I do disagree with is advocating physical abuse in order to maintain control. If the same rational existed as adults, one could argue that the airline employees should have spanked the parents because they were delaying the flight. In reality, it sounds like neither party treated each other with respect and understanding, hence the hard feelings.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No, I don't think being an airline pilot is better than being a mom. I do think that a person (man or woman) who just gets out of h.s., say, stays at home and starts having kids is not very bright, IMO, especially in this day and age. It's not 1950 anymore. This situation just sets you up to rely solely on someone else and that is not too smart. What if your husband dies or something? Now, you are screwed. (And, no, life insurance is not a good enough back up plan) If you set yourself up with some kind of back up plan (be it college degree or trade), now you can take care of yourself and your kids. There is nothing that pi$$es me off more than a person that is looking for someone to take care of them.

Times certianly change.....

Consider pre 1950 a man needed a woman and vice versa. One couldn't do it alone. But our current society, culture and economy allows individuals to be..... self sufficient... and that has led us to the mantra...

Up yours! I got mine....

Problem is.... the kids get caught in the middle..... there are only losers...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Cool. I'll move it to the top of the queu, been meaning to watch that and "An Inconvenient Truth".

With me on this trip is, "The Transporter 2" and "Crank".

Truly cerebral.

Might I suggest a few books to prevent idiocracy..............

John Adams
Flyboys
1776

 

[Lear70]

Sure, I agree that the parents should have done things differently. What I do disagree with is advocating physical abuse in order to maintain control. If the same rational existed as adults, one could argue that the airline employees should have spanked the parents because they were delaying the flight. In reality, it sounds like neither party treated each other with respect and understanding, hence the hard feelings.

That has to be one of the most rediculous arguments on this I have yet to hear.

A spanking is not abuse if it's done calmly, consistently, and love is shown after its done. If I have to explain this, you either a.) don't have kids or b.) were abused as a child and can't comprehend the "discipline with love" method of parenting that has worked for the entire history of mankind.

You don't have to spank adults (although some arguably need it) because they are old enough to understand right from wrong.

A 2 or 3 year old doesn't, and can't be rationally reasoned with or even threatened with psychological punishment such as losing a toy or TV privileges, that comes later.

There are a VERY FEW RARE kids I've seen who are not physically disciplined when they act up who are, overall, good kids.

The VAST MAJORITY of kids that aren't physically disciplined are the ones you end up seeing on "Super Nanny".

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Below are the two best posts of this thread. Empathetic, pragmatic, non-ego-tisitc and forward thinking.... too bad it is from the same person. But that person is the strongest of all of us.....

Here is a understanding for parents....

You cannot control another human being.

Again....

You cannot control another human being.
​

You can intimidate, use fear, use physical and mental pain, coerce, con, purchase and use guilt but these methodologies are for the weak. They are short term gains for long term failures. When parental whinning doesn't work then what? (yes parents whine!) When yelling no longer works, what's next? When spanking doesn't work, what's next?

Free Will reigns in the human spirit... It is best to convince children to behave properly thru positive traits such as respect, love, understanding, trust, empathy, compassion, patience and kindness.

As stated below you cannot give children a loaded deck and expect them to behave. Just like we expect our airline managements to give us the proper conditions and resources to do our jobs (and when they don't we scream very loudly) we have to give our children the same.

This has nothing to do with the child on that flight and everything to do with the parents. Maybe they were doing their best....but they just didn't know any better way. All of us would be better off in life if our parents were smarter than they were....

Finally, at some point in time, when we were toddlers, we were the screaming child all of you are so quick to condem.......

Traveling with children is very difficult. Often it is a mother alone. If you can offer help it would take a heavy burden off their shoulders. Help with a bag, stroller, directions, entertaining a child, whatever... Most traveling parents are very conscience of thier kids presence and behavior to others in a pressurized tube. Perhaps we can be a litte more conscience as well. (I am not saying the this family should not have been kept on the flight, rather, the strayed comments afterwards...)

The strongest people in the world are Mothers. Children of this age (less than six) can do something that none of us can... They can truely love unconditionally and not hold grudges.

I'm amazed at the ignorance of these posts! I really feel for your families. When there's a news article writtten about a pilot drinking before flying or an incident or accident, everyone jumps on here demanding we give this person the benefit of the doubt since reporters often skew the truth. And yet in this case, a three yr old doesn't deserve the same?

I read this morning that the child had eaten a bag of Cheetos before getting on the flight AND the parents mentioned that the child has recently had a procedure done to help an inner ear problem. Have any of you had a blocked ear on a flight? From what I understand this child had just come off of another flight. Can you imagine feeling the pain from the first flight and then having to get on another airplane? I'd probably be screaming too! Would you like it if your boss told you that, after landing with a blocked air, that you were going to get on another airplane or else face disciplinary action--say a few lashings for all you harda$$es? Why not consider the possibility that this child may not have felt well?

Cheetos are significant since many children who have inner ear problems also have food allergies that contribute to the fluid behind their ears. Cheetos are loaded with chemicals and dairy, both of which cause serious behavior problems in children. My child, for example, is a angel until she eats something with corn in it. WIthin one hour, she is screaming, kicking and flailing. This outburst may last for 15 minutes or so. And then she is back to normal. In absence of the offending food, this doesn't happen.

So next time you are acting a little cranky because you are tired and you mouth off a little to your FO, imagine your boss coming around a slapping you, putting you in time out. Or the next time you yell at your wife and kids after a stressful day at work, they lock you in your room to "think about what you've just done." Wouldn't you like them to have some understanding and compassion for you? Children deserve nothing less.

So stop using your children to boost your ego. Beating and controlling them doesn't not make you a man. It does make you look very insecure, not unlike the Captain who bosses around his flightcrew to prove he's in control. The real man doesn't need to demand respect because he already has it.

That's kinda the point I was getting to, Capt. M. As the disciplinarian, a major part of my role is figuring out, to the best of my abilities, what makes my child tick, in addition to what sets her off. I know that in order to have an enjoyable time my child (and my husband, I might add). they need to be well-rested, fed nutritious foods, ample exercise, and not be sick. Otherwise someone is going to be crabby. My husband can fend for himself, but my four yo is nowhere near understanding all of this. Rather than punishing her for what she cannot possibly understand, I choose to make sure that these conditions are met before I put her in a situation where she needs to be well-behaved. Finally after seven years of marriage, I've figured out that my husband and I should not argue if one of us is tired, since it's likely that after some rest, we will feel much more amiable. So, truly, we are not that much unlike our children, we are just better equipped to access our mental situation. Remember, this child has only been on the earth for 3 YEARS! Children have the capacity to think of themselves *only* until they are on average 6-7 years old. It's their survival instinct. Expecting them to understand that no one on the flight wants to hear their screaming means nothing to them. AND trying to talk to them while they are screaming will get no results. They only learn when you talk to them while they are calm. This is very simply child psychology, of which I wish all parents were required to read before having kids.

Had I been the Captain of this flight, I would have not taken more than a couple minute delay. Having looked into the eyes of an obvious distressed child, I would have ask them to try the next flight or consider spending the night and trying again the next day. At the same time, I think the parents were not as savvy as they could have been. I doubt this is a case of spoiled child, rather a misunderstood one.

I'm not sure if the child had been on a previous flight that day, but he had flown before, potentially with an ear problem. Hypothetically, if that he had only been on one other flight in his whole 3 years of living, and it was painful for him, undoubtedly he might protest a little on his next trip. Even animals learn from one bad experience.

I'm shocked at the numbers of you that think spanking is ok. I'm also curious if you think spousal abuse is ok. I'm guessing no. What hypocrisy! They both involve abusing someone to get them to do what you want. The wife has the option of leaving, but the child doesn't. It's sick, really. Beating someone smaller than you... Besides, I know from my upbringing, that spanking *might* get the results you want if front of you, but you never know what might happen when no one is watching. I prefer to talk to my child like she's a fellow human being (shocker--she is!) and teach her right from wrong so that she does what right because it's right, not because she is afraid of being hurt. Physically, mentally or emotionally.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That has to be one of the most rediculous arguments on this I have yet to hear.

A spanking is not abuse if it's done calmly, consistently, and love is shown after its done. If I have to explain this, you either a.) don't have kids or b.) were abused as a child and can't comprehend the "discipline with love" method of parenting that has worked for the entire history of mankind.

You don't have to spank adults (although some arguably need it) because they are old enough to understand right from wrong.

A 2 or 3 year old doesn't, and can't be rationally reasoned with or even threatened with psychological punishment such as losing a toy or TV privileges, that comes later.

Why would you punish or cause physical pain to a child if they cannot determine right from wrong? If you are spanking them how can they comprehend what the spanking is for? Sure you modified thier behavior out of fear and pain. They have no clue why.

Some of you guys are full of crap.

I have kids. They sit down. Even as toddlers. They don't sit down, they get a warning. They get a 2nd warning. They get a light pop and a 3rd warning. Then they get their butt taken to the bathroom and spanked. End of discussion.

Takes 2 minutes to do all of the above.

What we have here, I guarand*mntee you, is a set of parents who don't believe in physical discipline.

Spare the rod indeed... You don't have to abuse your child (smack them across the face or beat them literally black and blue) in order to discipline.

Toddlers don't understand logic or psychological threats of taking toys away, etc. They understand spankings, and positive reinforcement for good behavior. Period.

Good for the crew, and I'm GLAD it's being publicized; lets other parents know that sh*t won't be tolerated. Control your children or don't have any.

Why go to the bathroom? Why not spank in full public view?

Your second to the last paragraph is contridicting... If kids don't understand logic they how can they understand spankings... they are just repsonding to fear and physical pain. You'll get the result (and satisfaction of the behavior change and effectiveness of spanking) but that doesn't mean the child understands it.....