Air Tran Bid: Is it closed? Results?

[Lear70]

Seriously guys, lets move on. Dicko, you know damn well that you were offered pay parity, but your reps turned it down. I feel badly that they so grossly misrepresented you, but blame them not the guys here.

There was a very real risk that there wouldn't have been pay parity for any meaningful length of time.

During Round 1, that pay was only offered in the last minutes where the MEC was attempting to leave. Most present feel it was a "from the hip" shot from MV without it having been vetted by cost analysis.

During Round 2 when we were asking (and practically begging by the end) for SOME of the pay raises to come earlier or to "snap up" sooner, Southwest management kept saying No so finally the NC chair in front of all of us looked him in the eye and said, "There's no way our pilots are going to see this as anything but punitive. We need a reason why. It was in the first deal, why can't it be in the 2nd?"

Management answered by saying, "You don't WANT us to pay those rates. In trying to get a deal MV offered more than the airplane can pay for in profitability, which means if we paid those rates, the airplanes would be operating at a loss, with the current price of fuel, it's seating capacity, our inability to run it like SWA schedules for at least a year or so, especially during the transition when operating efficiency on that fleet will drop, and to tell you the truth, as soon as MV offered that and the bean counters got wind of it, they started coming up with ways to dump the airplanes ASAP. Some of those ways included, for the first time, a serious discussion on furloughs and early lease returns and just paying the penalty.

With these airplanes paying their existing rates, the airplane remains profitable during the transition and, once we get it here, we can increase the efficiency of the crews to offset the SWA pay rates. So unless you want more talk of airplanes going away quickly, you don't want those rates right now."

Until we can get 90% of the stage lengths on that plane between 60-90 minutes (none of this 2+ hours crap - the airplane's not built for that), and get another 60+ minutes or so utilization a day out of the plane, it's going to be only marginally cost-effective. Plugging it into the SWA network on their short hops is really going to help that airplane's cost efficiency and, thus, profitability, in order to pay for the higher rates.

Yes, they have the money to do it, but if you knew you were going to have to operate an airplane at or near a loss, would you suck it up or would you try to get them to go away while they were still on the AirTran side of the partition?

It's a gamble... like any other.

Discuss.

 

[Lear70]

it's
done.

it's
done.

it's
done.

it's
done.

it's
done.

for fkuc sake
it's
done!​

Yeah, I know. Just trying to get everyone to see how the process played out so that they can move down the road easier.

Maybe it's helping, maybe it's not, don't know, just trying to help people understand the process.

 

[scoreboardII]

I think his comment was to dicko/crashpad who appear to be the same person who can't let go of the drama queen act.

 

[scoreboardII]

I just read post 86. Lets just say that they put a new hire on the 717 before 2015. How about this... what is it when a guy with two years at a company is paid more than say a five year guy at the same company? It's a B-scale.

Enjoy your boosted B-scale profit sharing check. Chuckle at the list. Call us trash when we taxi by. Please don't ever call us equals... it's an insult to everyone involved.

So are you dicko or crashpad or one in the same???


If you read and failed to understand it, we have nothing else to discuss other than what do you call the AT pilot who gets his longevity pay bump above his peer SWA pilot who will be making 2-4 years less?

It's called a done deal, thats what it's called.

I have seen nothing but good tidings and cheer from both sides of this less than stellar deal while walking the terminal or talking on the radio.

Someone needs to hit the eggnog.

 

[dicko]

Actually, this is somewhat of a surprise and shock to pilots on the Southwest side as well. We too, were expecting the 737s to come over first; in fact I'm almost sure that at one point, I read that the first 717 wasn't transistioning until sometime in 2013. Now it's almost backwards. Everyone over here was anticipating that, because it's the 737 transitions that help SWA guys: Airtran 737 guys coming over with planes trigger upgrades and upward movement for SWA guys. Plus, Airtran-to-737 guys would get under our pay scale sooner. I suppose that's as close to a win-win as possible under our agreement. Not a putdown, but it seems that the transitioning of the 717s first doesn't help the paychecks of either pilot group.

In addition to the rumored problems with the new reservation system that Lear reported (slowing 737 transistion to SWA for int'l travel), I wonder if saving money in salary isn't at least partially responsible. Southwest 717s bringing in SWA revenue (while paying Airtran salaries) would seem to help the company's bottom line. Obviously some 737s are coming over in 2012, but not at the speed and ratio that we all thought. Looks like GK is trying to save a buck or two here as well.

Bubba

Good analysis. In addition, the AirTran 'International' flying has apparently pleasantly surprised SWA Mgt. with the high yields. The fact that they can have cheaper pilots fly them is an attraction.

 

[dicko]

Seriously guys, lets move on. Dicko, you know damn well that you were offered pay parity, but your reps turned it down. I feel badly that they so grossly misrepresented you, but blame them not the guys here.

There was absolutely nothing stopping GK offering pay parity at any point after the AIP 1 disaster. He realized that he had our backs against the wall and took full advantage of it. The past is pretty ugly and it didn't have to be. It was a very clear, premeditated choice to make it this way.

Please don't' confuse the fact that I can see reality, as an indication that I'm not optimistic about our collective futures. I am. I'll never let this SLI get in the way of buying a beer for the guy or girl I'm flying with. Or having a good time at a job I love.

 

[Lear70]

Had to clean out my PM box, sorry 'bout that...

 

[jball2]

Dicko, I don't know where you sit on the new list but I got your beer brother. The future is bright. Trust me, I know how it is to feel burned,but every instance of that feeling I have had led to something bigger and better than I imagined. I had an old friend kind of burn me on the Delta gig. It turned out to be a huge blessing that I thank God for every day. Cheers Brother.

 

[dicko]

So are you dicko or crashpad or one in the same???


If you read and failed to understand it, we have nothing else to discuss other than what do you call the AT pilot who gets his longevity pay bump above his peer SWA pilot who will be making 2-4 years less?

It's called a done deal, thats what it's called.

I have seen nothing but good tidings and cheer from both sides of this less than stellar deal while walking the terminal or talking on the radio.

Someone needs to hit the eggnog.

Funny. I've always wondered whether "Crashpad" was a literal screen name. A computer in a Crashpad with multiple access.

You do realize that there are nearly 1700 pilots that think similarly ? It doesn't mean that we cant work together and it surely isn't an excuse for poor behavior at work with other pilots. It's all good Scoreboard.

Whataburger said it best.

Happy Festivus.

 

[dicko]

Dicko, I don't know where you sit on the new list but I got your beer brother. The future is bright. Trust me, I know how it is to feel burned,but every instance of that feeling I have had led to something bigger and better than I imagined. I had an old friend kind of burn me on the Delta gig. It turned out to be a huge blessing that I thank God for every day. Cheers Brother.

You too. We'll keep the Jumpseat warm for you. Hopefully, for not much longer.

Be well,

D.