Air Mekong interview via Skype

[COOPERVANE]

agreed

 

[SPDBRD747400]

You got to ask why is ASA investing on this venture? PROFITS due to HIGH YIELDS, that is why. Same reason as to why you got carriers paying 10 to 12K to fly a CRJ out here, because they can afford to do it since their profit margin is high. YOU are selling yourself short and if they didn't get anybody accepting this pathetic T&C's, they would have increased them to a competitive level.

100% agree!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

All of you are missing the point here, this is not about getting sick because in the three years that I have been flying in S.E. Asia I haven't gotten sick once, it is quite the contrary you will enjoy a great culinary experience out here since you are not going to eat at an eatery with dirt floors out in a slum you won't be fed dog inadvertently any more than you will be fed rattle snake in the corner of "shallow gene pool street" with "Boy you got a pretty mouth" avenue because you are not going to go eat there, Right?

You got to ask why is ASA investing on this venture? PROFITS due to HIGH YIELDS, that is why. Same reason as to why you got carriers paying 10 to 12K to fly a CRJ out here, because they can afford to do it since their profit margin is high. YOU are selling yourself short and if they didn't get anybody accepting this pathetic T&C's, they would have increased them to a competitive level.

The fact remains that this is a free market, and the salaries will be what the market can bear. In Capitalism, salaries are not based on what the company profits. Salaries are based on what they can get the people doing the work to accept as payment. The company's job is to make as much profit as possible. The employees job is to determine what a good wage is, and negotiate to get that. If you don't like the pay, don't take the job.

Like it or not, the reason this contract doesn't pay as much as other contracts is that the people going are not resigning from ASA. It wasn't offered on the open market, and those going get to come back after a year to their old jobs, still accruing seniority. So, in some ways it pays well, in that you can go make more than you would make in the US for a year, then come back to your old job. It is a de facto part of the compensation package.

You guys aren't comparing apples to apples.

 

[d328pilot]

I am open-minded about this decision. I have a couple of suggestions for you guys.
1. The above person obviously didn't even half of the contract or they would have seen that we get a housing allowance that can be pooled with other pilots'. Get informed about a topic before you comment on it.
2. You guys are reacting emotionally and sarcastically. I would suggest logical arguments.
It makes it really easy to discount your opinions when you make posts like this. I am happy to consider logical, informed arguments.

No you obviously missed the point of what I was trying to explain to you. Your "housing allowance", if you can really call it that, is so much less than other contractors, that your only option will be to share a crash pad. Other expats on real contracts don't have that problem because we are paid what we are worth.

 

[d328pilot]

The fact remains that this is a free market, and the salaries will be what the market can bear. In Capitalism, salaries are not based on what the company profits.

The irony here being that you are going to work in a communist country.

Salaries are based on what they can get the people doing the work to accept as payment. The company's job is to make as much profit as possible. The employees job is to determine what a good wage is, and negotiate to get that. If you don't like the pay, don't take the job.

So then I assume you are not a union member. Because by your above statement, you would have no problem with me coming to work at ASA for free. After all, I have been working on a real contract and don't really need the paycheck anymore. I might even be willing to pay them to take your job back in the US. But since the company can get me for free, that makes it ok.

Like it or not, the reason this contract doesn't pay as much as other contracts is that the people going are not resigning from ASA. It wasn't offered on the open market, and those going get to come back after a year to their old jobs, still accruing seniority.

No, the reason this "contract" pays so little is because you guys are foaming at the mouth to jump on it. If you would have all stood together and said that it was too low and needed to be higher, you might have gotten more.

So, in some ways it pays well, in that you can go make more than you would make in the US for a year, then come back to your old job. It is a de facto part of the compensation package.

Don't kid yourself. You are being paid a crap wage anyway you look at it.

You guys aren't comparing apples to apples.

Really? So you are flying in Vietnam right? You are an expat there, right? On a contract? How do you explain the fact that you are flying a bigger airplane (CRJ900) on the same routes as guys at VN on the ATR and making about 30% less???

Your right....you don't deserve to be compared to them.

 

[d328pilot]

All of you are missing the point here, this is not about getting sick because in the three years that I have been flying in S.E. Asia I haven't gotten sick once

Consider yourself lucky my amigo. I have have been sick 3 of the last 5 times I have been home cause of bad food. With the wages they are being paid, they are going to have to eat like locals. Enjoy the bugs and grubs guys.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

The irony here being that you are going to work in a communist country.

Let me be clear. I ain't going.

So then I assume you are not a union member. Because by your above statement, you would have no problem with me coming to work at ASA for free. After all, I have been working on a real contract and don't really need the paycheck anymore. I might even be willing to pay them to take your job back in the US. But since the company can get me for free, that makes it ok.

Actually, I not a fan of unions in general, but because ASA is an agency shop, I'm a member of one. I don't give a crap what you make if you work for a company. When you work at any normal job in America, you may make less than your neighbor in the cube farm, or more, depending on your skill set and negotiating skills, etc. I only care what I make, and if the company doesn't offer me what I think I deserve, I don't take the job. Welcome to capitalism.

No, the reason this "contract" pays so little is because you guys are foaming at the mouth to jump on it. If you would have all stood together and said that it was too low and needed to be higher, you might have gotten more.

Again. I'm not going. But since you brought it up... Why do you hate the free market so much? What you are advocating is tantamount to price fixing, except on the side of labor. If the market supports their offer, then it is a fair offer.

Don't kid yourself. You are being paid a crap wage anyway you look at it.

Covered this.

Really? So you are flying in Vietnam right? You are an expat there, right? On a contract? How do you explain the fact that you are flying a bigger airplane (CRJ900) on the same routes as guys at VN on the ATR and making about 30% less???

Covered this, but because you didn't comprehend it, I'll repeat it. All of that is irrelevant because 1., they didn't offer it to the public, and 2. anyone who goes gets to keep their job. That is part of the compensation that you aren't considering. It is a very very valuable commodity, the ability to keep a senior position at a reputable regional. Certainly no one would leave if they had to resign, and that's the point.

Your right....you don't deserve to be compared to them.

I know I'm right. Thanks!

 

[COOPERVANE]

What you are advocating is tantamount to price fixing, except on the side of labor. If the market supports their offer, then it is a fair offer.

So if you lost your job at ASA because some 300 wonder would do it for free, you wouldn't complain about it? That would be a fair offer. If the market will bear it, it's OK right?

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[LazyLightnin']

So if you lost your job at ASA because some 300 wonder would do it for free, you wouldn't complain about it? That would be a fair offer. If the market will bear it, it's OK right?

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Point awarded to COOPERVANE

 

[ASA_Aviator]

So if you lost your job at ASA because some 300 wonder would do it for free, you wouldn't complain about it? That would be a fair offer. If the market will bear it, it's OK right?

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Yep, we will have to agree to disagree.

I wouldn't accept a job for free, and I wouldn't have gotten into the career for free. If the jobs start paying nothing, I'll get out, as would most everyone else.

Point is, that won't happen because the market can't bear it, even with 300 hour wonders. Obviously, if the airlines could staff without paying, they would have done it already.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Point awarded to COOPERVANE

Why, because he reduces his argument to logical fallacies?

 

[d328pilot]

Let me be clear. I ain't going.

Good for you.

Actually, I not a fan of unions in general, but because ASA is an agency shop, I'm a member of one. I don't give a crap what you make if you work for a company. When you work at any normal job in America, you may make less than your neighbor in the cube farm, or more, depending on your skill set and negotiating skills, etc. I only care what I make, and if the company doesn't offer me what I think I deserve, I don't take the job. Welcome to capitalism.

I am a capitalists, more so than you think. However, Capitalism, in it's pure form, will never work because human nature tends to mess it up. There will always be a need for some regulation. The last few years have been a great example of why.

Again. I'm not going. But since you brought it up... Why do you hate the free market so much? What you are advocating is tantamount to price fixing, except on the side of labor. If the market supports their offer, then it is a fair offer.

What we are trying to do is inform these people who are considering this, that could get more if they made an attempt. The going market rate is much higher and they are selling themselves short. They have no experience in the contract world so how would they know unless we tell them?

Covered this, but because you didn't comprehend it, I'll repeat it. All of that is irrelevant because 1., they didn't offer it to the public, and 2. anyone who goes gets to keep their job. That is part of the compensation that you aren't considering. It is a very very valuable commodity, the ability to keep a senior position at a reputable regional. Certainly no one would leave if they had to resign, and that's the point.

More than half of the guys on my contract never had to resign and have rights to go back to their previous company too. And they are still making a LOT more than the Air Mekong guys are.

I know I'm right. Thanks!

uke:

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Good for you.



I am a capitalists, more so than you think. However, Capitalism, in it's pure form, will never work because human nature tends to mess it up. There will always be a need for some regulation. The last few years have been a great example of why.

Naturally, but that isn't relevant to this case.

What we are trying to do is inform these people who are considering this, that could get more if they made an attempt. The going market rate is much higher and they are selling themselves short. They have no experience in the contract world so how would they know unless we tell them?

They couldn't get more. The company will just interview until they find 40 people to go. There are 40 people out there, furloughed or otherwise, who would happily make $80,000 or so for a year. (Less obviously for FO.)

I understand your position, but it is untenable given the current market.

More than half of the guys on my contract never had to resign and have rights to go back to their previous company too. And they are still making a LOT more than the Air Mekong guys are.

Are they furloughed from their respective airlines? This isn't a furlough. It is a voluntary leave.

It really is a moot point. The fact remains that only 40 pilots are needed, and we have 136 pilots on furlough, most of whom would jump at the chance to fill the 20 FO seats if none of the active FOs want to go. Even if all of the ASA captains refused to go, there will be 20 captains at SkyWest who would fill the position. If no SkyWest captains would, then I'm sure 20 people off the street would.

The market favors the companies right now. It is just a fact. I wish we could all make $300,000 flying 2 days a month too. Life's a female dog.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

The fact remains that this is a free market, and the salaries will be what the market can bear. In Capitalism, salaries are not based on what the company profits. Salaries are based on what they can get the people doing the work to accept as payment. The company's job is to make as much profit as possible. The employees job is to determine what a good wage is, and negotiate to get that. If you don't like the pay, don't take the job.

Like it or not, the reason this contract doesn't pay as much as other contracts is that the people going are not resigning from ASA. It wasn't offered on the open market, and those going get to come back after a year to their old jobs, still accruing seniority. So, in some ways it pays well, in that you can go make more than you would make in the US for a year, then come back to your old job. It is a de facto part of the compensation package.

You guys aren't comparing apples to apples.

"Apples to apples"....Skywest had a similar deal for us to fly EMB-120's in Belgium years ago that paid $10,000 a month, all living expenses paid, and an LOA that allowed us to come back with seniority etc. Same as you, but more money to fly a turboprop, 1/3 the capcacity and 1/2 the speed of the Air Mekong 900's you'll be flying for far less! Is that "apples to apples" enough??

 

[ePilot22]

The fact remains that this is a free market, and the salaries will be what the market can bear. In Capitalism, salaries are not based on what the company profits. Salaries are based on what they can get the people doing the work to accept as payment. The company's job is to make as much profit as possible. The employees job is to determine what a good wage is, and negotiate to get that. If you don't like the pay, don't take the job.

Like it or not, the reason this contract doesn't pay as much as other contracts is that the people going are not resigning from ASA. It wasn't offered on the open market, and those going get to come back after a year to their old jobs, still accruing seniority. So, in some ways it pays well, in that you can go make more than you would make in the US for a year, then come back to your old job. It is a de facto part of the compensation package.

You guys aren't comparing apples to apples.

Posts like these are why I lose brain cells everytime I visit FI. Thanks for making me stoopider!




eP.

 

[bob_sakamano]

Final words on Air MeJet from a negative know-nothing

I had to walk away from this thread in pure frustration. Trying to share some insight based on ACTUAL experience only to hear people attempt to justify an all around poor decision was starting to piss me off.

The facts are basic: It is not glamorous being an ex-pat. It is much harder than any domestic flying job. There are many reasons the pay is higher (except for this outstanding gig) which have been covered ad-nauseum. You are not liked by the local nationals. Now you will not be liked by fellow ex-pats (other than your fellow Top Gunners). There is no protection for you. ASA (Don't even factor MeJet) does not care about you and will not come to your defense there. You are just making them a disgusting profit by foaming at the mouth to work on a glamorous overseas contract. You will go through many statges of which loathing your job, the place you are and the people you are around will be the final and longest lasting. You will be homesick. Living in a crashpad with other guys is not an acceptable lifestyle when you work overseas. Accepting this before the fact like many have on this thread is immature and defeatist all at the same time. You will not live as cheaply as you think you can. You will drink more, spend more and do out of character things in an attempt to make yourself and the situation feel normal. You will work more hours than you think. You will be coerced. You will probably be a crime victim at some point. You will get sick (hopefully just random stomach maladies and not tropical diseases such as Malaria). You will be frustrated by lack of standardization at the airline and with ATC. RVSM doesn't mean crap when you have a Russian cargo plane coming at you on the same airway with no transponder and a bad altimeter.

I could go on, but it won't do any good. There are some immature, naive fools that are "in it to win it" for themselves and just don't get it. This is the beginning of the end of fairly compensated overseas contract jobs. Don't think that Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, KAL, ANA and the rest aren't looking for ways to cut costs. This MeJet contract just might be the straw that breaks the camel's back by opening the floodgates for the new substandard for overseas jobs.

One thing you will learn: How to cooperate...or you will be coming home. Where is you ASA job going to be if you get fired by MeJet for any number of reasons? I've seen countless guys get fired for totally random things. It doesn't take gross miscondut to get fired. Good luck getting your final pay too.

The money isn't as good as it sounds. You must bepaid accordingly for the sacrifices you aren't aware that you're going to make.

Ok. Now back to the regularly scheduled program of trashing the negative attitude of stupid expats.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

That about sums it up. You make a decision to fly in Vietnam nd accept the risks and uncertanties for one thing and one thing only: M-O-N-E-Y. And it ain't being offered.

All of us saw the breakdown of the MeJet vs. ASA pay rate it essetially borrowed all the savings (no ALPA dues, no medical, etc.) and used those as "credits" to come up with the MeJet payscale. They didn't even CONSIDER what similar contracts were paying. They simply looked to create parity between both jobs.


Folks, if that's not a red flag, I'm not sure what is. THINK ABOUT THIS CAREFULLY.

 

[IHateDaley]

One other thing to consider is the FICA tax (Social Security and Medicare). While you're exempt from the income tax up to $91,400, you MAY still have to pay 15.3% in FICA taxes as an independent contractor living abroad. That is unless you're going to be an employee of Mekong, as opposed to a contract worker. Check with a tax advisor!

 

[Speedtape]

Do they have MTV and internet? Is hair product available?

 

[d328pilot]

And don't forget that if you want to work for FedEx or UPS, they require that you have lived in the US for the prior 5 years I believe due to their security requirements.

If I am wrong, and I might be, I am sure someone will be along shortly to correct me.