Air Mekong interview via Skype

[OCP]

Thanks for the different perspectives everyone. I am not going to Vietnam.
It doesnt matter now (to me) but ASA Aviator is correct in his/her illustrations of how markets behave. Something is worth what it is bought/sold for, not what a magical "blue book" says or any other publication. That is why NADA, Kelley, Edmunds or any other ESTIMATOR of market conditions gives multiple price ranges.
The same is true of a housing market, job market, or any other market.
I think you guys have been arguing in cirlcles because ASA AVIATOR is talking about how the world is and the rest of you are talking about how you wish it was. Believe me, I wish with you, and that's why I won't take the contract. But you guys have been wrong about a lot of things on this thread.

Really...? You can't see the big picture of all this? How is what ASA is doing any different than what we ALL bitch about with Mesa? Don't we all hate what Mesa is and does to the "regional" industry? Now ASA is doing that EXACT same thing to the over seas contract "industry". This is ok?

 

[WhendoIgetpaid]

no, it is not ok.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

ASA AVIATOR is talking about how the world is and the rest of you are talking about how you wish it was. Believe me, I wish with you, and that's why I won't take the contract. But you guys have been wrong about a lot of things on this thread.

I don't "wish" for the salaries in Vietnam to be 40% higher than the salary package that has been offered by ASA, I don't "wish" that the 30,000 dollars in savings that was your argument for applying for this job is what the airlines abroad are paying as contract completion bonuses alone, I don't "wish" for the market in Vietnam to be a high yield market that supports this salaries that are currently being paid. I don't "wish" for Asia to be the largest recipient of new A/C's in the world by more than double the U.S. and the E.U. combined, I don't "wish" for the largest explosion of middle class development in human history (largely surpassing the U.S. middle class development of the 50's and 60's) to be happening in Asia. I don't "wish" that the largest purchaser of luxury goods are the countries that form the Asian block. I don't "wish" that the cargo business yields are higher in Asia than anywhere else in the world, I don't "wish" that companies that operate regional jets in Asia are profitable as stand alone companies, that is the way it is.

What I do wish for is for the ASA pilots to realize that they are as good and professional pilots as anyone who is working in Vietnam and that there is NO reason as to why accept substandard wages when the company would be more than willing to pay market wages

 

[WhendoIgetpaid]

What I do wish for is for the ASA pilots to realize that they are as good and professional pilots as anyone who is working in Vietnam and that there is NO reason as to why accept substandard wages when the company would be more than willing to pay market wages

yeah, that is the part I was talking about. I'm not trying to knock you at all but this is what ASA AVIATOR was talking about. You guys seemed to be arguing in circles about the term "market". I will use the Blue Book comparison made earlier-
You are saying that the Blue Book value of a used Camaro is $30,000 and someone shouldn't get any less for one because that's what the Blue Book says and it is such a high quality car. What ASA AVIATOR is saying is that if there are all the sudden 10,000 people trying to sell their Camaros at the same time then they might only be able to get $20,000 because the market is flooded.
You wish no one would ever sell a Camaro for less than $30,000 but ASA AVIATOR was stating the reality now-it is worth whatever you can sell yours for...in my example $20,000.
Do you see the comparison? As Pilots we want to believe that our skills are worth a certain amount of money independent of the market we are in. The reality of the matter is that the market will bear a certain price and it fluctuates. Management is acutely aware of this and probably taking advantage of a market flooded with Camaros (pilots-a lot out of work)
You wish for your Camaro to be worth $30,000 but the reality is that they are only selling for $20,000.
We do have a choice in the matter-don't sell.

 

[tyuwerty]

yeah, that is the part I was talking about. I'm not trying to knock you at all but this is what ASA AVIATOR was talking about. You guys seemed to be arguing in circles about the term "market". I will use the Blue Book comparison made earlier-
You are saying that the Blue Book value of a used Camaro is $30,000 and someone shouldn't get any less for one because that's what the Blue Book says and it is such a high quality car. What ASA AVIATOR is saying is that if there are all the sudden 10,000 people trying to sell their Camaros at the same time then they might only be able to get $20,000 because the market is flooded.
You wish no one would ever sell a Camaro for less than $30,000 but ASA AVIATOR was stating the reality now-it is worth whatever you can sell yours for...in my example $20,000.
Do you see the comparison? As Pilots we want to believe that our skills are worth a certain amount of money independent of the market we are in. The reality of the matter is that the market will bear a certain price and it fluctuates. Management is acutely aware of this and probably taking advantage of a market flooded with Camaros (pilots-a lot out of work)
You wish for your Camaro to be worth $30,000 but the reality is that they are only selling for $20,000.
We do have a choice in the matter-don't sell.

Except that on the "world market" there is a shortage of high quality experienced "camaros". These fine "camaros" fetch a much higher price than on the "local markets" because they need to be imported and papered. They also have to be shipped further and operate in a harsher environment that can lead to shortened vehicle life.

Now we have a single country that has plenty of "camaros" available inside its borders. The people from this country start to ship out their "camaros" to the first bidders at the lowest price. Not knowing ANYTHING about the market conditions in the larger market, they have just disrupted the market with a temporary over supply.

The market will correct over time, but the original "camaro" dealers now have to put up with an artificial price decrease brought on by these putzes and their lack of market knowledge.

For awhile everyone thinks that they can buy "camaros" for $20k, in reality it is just a handful of suckers that sold WAY TO LOW.

Kind of like the used car market after Katrina.

The USA is turning into a Mexico full of pilots. Lots of them willing to go anywhere at any price. Maybe we do need a fence.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Except that on the "world market" there is a shortage of high quality experienced "camaros".
The USA is turning into a Mexico full of pilots. Lots of them willing to go anywhere at any price. Maybe we do need a fence.

Finally, somebody gets it. YOU ARE NOT BIDDING FOR A JOB IN TEXAS! stop trying to equate the U.S. aviation industry with the international market. ASA was counting on the fact that you guys have very little knowledge about the salary rates in the international market and they are counting with the fact that you think that supply and demand factors are the same, they are not.
I keep saying but you don't listen, ASA NEEDS YOU FOR THIS VENTURE TO WORK and they will pay a LOT more than this pathetic offer to come into a profitable market without scope restrictions. I ask again, what's next? flying 767's for 100K when the market abroad is paying over double that? You tell me

 

[Brak]

We are able to see in a few posts, from some not familiar with living/operating in foreign countries, what can make it difficult to have a conversation with them. It's frustrating how small a "world view" can be, and it isn't limited to aviation related topics.

The wake-up will happen when those who choose to accept the contract get out of their honeymoon period, if they even start one after arriving. They will be educated whether they like it or not, and it may be a steep learning curve for some.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Having flown in more than a few countries, most were non English speaking, its amazing how alone you can feel in in a city surrounded by millions of people. When the only other people who UNDERSTAND you are fellow expats, I wonder how the ASA guys will do when the very guys they need most for friendship and guidance would rather hit them with a 2X4. I wonder if when you ask them where the best whorehouses are they send you to the local AIDS trap?
They are gonna need all the GOOD luck they can get, because I think its gonna be a very DIFFERENT experience than it could be.
PBR