Air Force Pilots

[Deuce130]

Dave Griffin is not a SEAL. He's a poser wanna be who spouts off about things he has no clue about. His opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[MalteseX]

A couple of clarifiers are important. Your BAH (Housing Allowance) is entirely dependant upon location. Travis AFB is one of the more expensive locations. For example, at Grand Forks AFB the Housing Allowance for a 2nd Lieutenant is $870/month if you are married or $618/month if you are single. Rates increase with rank/promotion as indicated.

True. I just got tired looking up all the numbers from different parts of the DFAS website.

Bottom line for all those reading this board and wondering about AF pilot pay is that the variable part of your pay is the tax-free BAH, which is otherwise known as a "housing allowance"-- it is variable dependent upon:

a. rank (usually increases with rank, but not always)
b. Dependents--there are 2 rates; single or 'with dependent' (if you are single with no kids, it's lower; however if you have one or more dependents, spouse or kids, it is higher)
c. location (each location has a different rate
d. Living on base--if you take a house on the base; your "rent" is the BAH; in other words, they take it back.

My range during the time I was in the AF was $640 for a low (single 2d Lt, low-cost area) to $2100 (married, Lt Col, high-cost area).

 

[TankerDriver]

I am also sure that you are not going to volunteering to fly a CRJ at a Regional because you did not not get the proper training, or experience to really be a pilot.

Damn skippy on that one... :laugh:

On to money... it is good. How about 9 months of tax free in one year? There happens to be a lot of green in the desert, if you know what I mean. Between hostile fire pay, family separation pay, hardship pay, per diem and not having to pay Fed taxes, it's an extra tax free $1,000 a month while deployed. It's huge. My reported income last year was about $23,000. I really cleared about $55,000, plus benefits. That's probably the equiv to making $80,000+ as a civilian, easily.

 

[frog_flyer]

how do ang deployments go?

you just drop your regular job, life, and everything, and leave for 2 months?

 

[TankerDriver]

frog flyer,

Pretty much, although ANG units don't deploy as much as AD units, at least not in the tanker world. Most of the tanker ANG deployments are 30 day'ers, but we'll get the occasional guard bum who wants to help us out in the desert who comes for 2 months (extra $$ for them). Dropping your job, life and everything is part of the job. On active duty, it's our job to drop life and everything to leave for 2 months! Keep in mind, it is illegal for an employer to terminate you for being activated to deploy in the ANG, so they have to allow you to keep your job.

 

[KCPilot]

Join the Guard or Reserve and DON’T take the technician job if you like to fly! With all of the furlough guys, they need to get paid so they fly while I (the technician) sit at my desk in front if the computer doing BS office work for the Commander! I miss the bum days and with alert in the tanker units, at least in my unit the bums always get paid, which is what it's about!

So to recap be the bum, you get to fly on almost any local/TDY you like and stay out of the office to gain those hours and the pay is bad pay. Don’t be a Technician (ART) unless you’d not like to fly and you like to do all kinds of office work. The ART program is great for those with a lot of hours and mind not flying when the airlines are furloughing and on the flip side fly there butts off when the airlines are hiring. Also as an ART you get to be home almost every night, but you sell your soul as we say for the $$$ All the ARTs I know that are furlough airline guys can’t wait to go back to the airlines, but that seems to be the case for any furloughed airline guy!

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave Griffin is not a SEAL. He's a poser wanna be who spouts off about things he has no clue about. His opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

Deuce130;

I don't know what you and your crew were up to behind the curtain on the old E model Blackbirds during training drops, but I always suspected they were drinking beer and/or looking at their gay porn mags.

It really doesn't matter, other than on the night land drops you guys scored about a 75% rate of putting us in the trees rather than the designated DZ. On the water Rubber Duck drops it was easier for you to claim succcess since you could miss the target by 100-800 meters and it really didn't matter other than we had to motor a bit farther.

Even as a shy and retiring new Ens. I soon learned a distaste for the AF attitude at the debriefs where the plane Captain would just shrug his shoulders and not really give a sh*t when we discussed the need for greater accuracy on the spots.

 

[Pistlpetet]

Deuce130;

I don't know what you and your crew were up to behind the curtain on the old E model Blackbirds during training drops, but I always suspected they were drinking beer and/or looking at their gay porn mags.

It really doesn't matter, other than on the night land drops you guys scored about a 75% rate of putting us in the trees rather than the designated DZ. On the water Rubber Duck drops it was easier for you to claim succcess since you could miss the target by 100-800 meters and it really didn't matter in the other than we had to motor a bit farther.

Even as a shy and retiring new Ens. I soon learned a distaste for the AF attitude at the debriefs where the plane Captain would just shrug his shoulders and not really give a sh*t when we discussed the need for greater accuracy on the spots.

Dave, PM me your last name (if it is not Griffin), and buds class number!

 

[135 Guy]

Join a Air National Guard Unit, and leave all that active duty _ull_hit alone. Show up on time fly your mission and go home.

 

[BMD]

I go a couple months without looking at flightinfo and upon my return, I find Griffin running his pie hole just like before. Clown.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Deuce130;

I don't know what you and your crew were up to behind the curtain on the old E model Blackbirds during training drops, but I always suspected they were drinking beer and/or looking at their gay porn mags.

It really doesn't matter, other than on the night land drops you guys scored about a 75% rate of putting us in the trees rather than the designated DZ. On the water Rubber Duck drops it was easier for you to claim succcess since you could miss the target by 100-800 meters and it really didn't matter other than we had to motor a bit farther.

Even as a shy and retiring new Ens. I soon learned a distaste for the AF attitude at the debriefs where the plane Captain would just shrug his shoulders and not really give a sh*t when we discussed the need for greater accuracy on the spots.

I take it you've never jumped from a c-17? I can't speak for the c-130 community. In the C-17 world I've never met, nor heard of anyone remotely resembling the attitude you are talking about. I'd be ashamed if you were exagerating to make a point, since people like me and countless others put our very lives into learning how to get jumpers onto the DZ with the greatest of accuracy and precision. What you are insinuating goes beyond inter service rivalry, and all I have to say about that is F*&% Y&#! I know for a fact we take getting jumpers on the DZ very seriously, literally putting our wings on the table EVERY TIME we fly airdrop. If ANYTHING or ANYONE lands off DZ there is an "Off DZ" safety board convened to analyze top to bottom what happened. And peoples' HEADS ROLL! I've seen it FIRSTHAND. So I'd hope you would retract your statement so you don't piss off and insult the very people who are working hard to ensure the safety of the people you speak of.

 

[McGillicutty]

I go a couple months without looking at flightinfo and upon my return, I find Griffin running his pie hole just like before. Clown.

Welcome back!

 

[McGillicutty]

KarmaPolice,

Your first mistake was paying attention to what DavePoser says. It's obvious through his dialouge that he's a fake; no need for anyone to check lastnames/BUDS class dates.

 

[KarmaPolice]

ahhh that would make sense then. my bad.

 

[michael707767]

Not true these days with the advent of the crj.

A 21 yr old straight out of college goes into the crj which has state of the art electronics and avionics.

A 5000 hr regional Captain is probably 25 years old with 3000 hrs of PIC jet experience in state of the art passenger equipment.

first of all, I challenge you to find me a 25 year old RJ captain with 5000 hours total time and 3000 PIC in a state of the art jet. I would love to meet the kid who got hired at 21, upgraded in one year, and then managed to log 1000 hours a year for the next three years. That's a neat trick.

Even if he/she does exist, explain to me why military pilots still get hired in equal or greater numbers?

 

[pilotyip]

micheal707, he did not go to college and got hired at age 20. At that time he had almost 1700 hours of CFIing and 135 stuff. He upgraded at age 23, had to wait until he could hold an ATP, and is now at 5000 hours a a 25 year old Captain. I actually flew with this guy in our C-47 last summer on a day trip to the Air Zoo at AZO.

 

[Deuce130]

Deuce130;

I don't know what you and your crew were up to behind the curtain on the old E model Blackbirds during training drops, but I always suspected they were drinking beer and/or looking at their gay porn mags.

It really doesn't matter, other than on the night land drops you guys scored about a 75% rate of putting us in the trees rather than the designated DZ. On the water Rubber Duck drops it was easier for you to claim succcess since you could miss the target by 100-800 meters and it really didn't matter other than we had to motor a bit farther.

Even as a shy and retiring new Ens. I soon learned a distaste for the AF attitude at the debriefs where the plane Captain would just shrug his shoulders and not really give a sh*t when we discussed the need for greater accuracy on the spots.

Shy and retiring new ensign? I've met three 0-2 Navy SEALs. Not one of them was shy and retiring. Double the sentiment for the enlisted SEALs I met. Sure, you drop some info about duck drops and the the MC-130E (Combat Talon, not Blackbird, that's the name of the squadron) but I notice you didn't refute my statement about you not being a SEAL. Your previous posts have convinced me you are not and this one didn't do anything to change my mind.

Many years ago, I was the copilot of a crew that dropped Korean SOF off the DZ. We were mortified and went into great detail to figure out why and how it happened so that it wouldn't happen again. Your assertion that AF crews, especially AFSOC crews, would simply shrug their shoulders when the "user" has concerns or is dropped in the wrong place is ridiculous. Your claims concerning drop accuracy are also grossly exaggerated. I know, you're probably ticked b/c I'm called you out, but I urge you to speak truthfully when you decide to bag on other people.

 

[CameronW]

Wow- it's safe to say that this kid got a lot more than he bargained for.

meyers- I've had people ask me the exact same kind of questions that you're asking. You're interested but unsure what you want to do, or if you want to commit. Even though I'm one of those guys who wanted to fly for the Air Force since I was 5 years old, I understand. For your age, what you're going through is quite normal.

The only person who can really answer the question of whether or not you should join the military is you. You need to think long and hard about what it is you want out of life. Since you're a junior, you still have some time. Joining the military is a serious commitment that is not to be taken lightly, and there are NO guarantees. You are not guaranteed an OTS slot- those spots are very competitive. If you get an OTS slot, you are not guaranteed a pilot slot. Those spots are even more competitive. If you get a pilot slot, you're not guaranteed to go to pilot training (odds are you will, but some people are found ineligible after they receive their slot--usually medical). If you go to pilot training, you're not guaranteed to graduate--you have to work your ass off, and some people, no matter how hard they try, just don't have what it takes to finish the program. If you do finish the program, there is no guarantee that you'll get the jet of your choice. Wanna fly a fighter? Well, most of the people in your class will want that as well, and there are A LOT more heavy jet assignments out there than fighter jobs. Then there's no guarantee that you'll be flying for all the years you're in the USAF. There are a number of non-flying jobs that go to junior officer aviators, like Air Liason Officer (working with the Army), UAV operator, various other remote tours to exotic locations such as Iraq, Afghanistan, and Korea.

Should you do it? You need to answer the following questions:
- Do you want to serve your country and be a leader in our military, even if it turns out you can't fly?
- Will you be able to handle frequent and long deployments overseas away from loved ones?
- Are you ok with the fact that the majority of your time day to day will not be spent in the cockpit?

If you answer "no" to any of the above, then the military probably isn't for you.

Good luck,

 

[BMD]

military vs. civilian

At the end of the day, you're a dumb college kid. No offense, I was one 15 years ago. You may sign on to do 8 years in order to get flight training, experience and 2500 hours. You may have every intention of getting out and getting a good job with Delta (god knows that's what I wanted to do.) If things work out and you get that job, good on you. If they don't work out that way, you may still have a decent career in the military flying aircraft for 20 years. You don't have to be GI Joe to serve honorably. You just have to do your job in a professional manner and take what you can get. If you get stuck as a FAC with the 101st AB in Durga Durgastan, do the best you can and roll from there. Don't let a ****************************** bag like Dave Griffin (pogue) sway you one way or another. We're all just throwing opinions (which are like a$$holes[which are like griffins]) at you. Take them all in and make an educated decision as to what's right for YOU.

 

[CameronW]

BTW, the AF commitment for pilots is 10 years now. Food for thought...

 

[McGillicutty]

(which are like a$$holes[which are like griffins]) at you.

Bahaha! It's good to have you back, BMD.

 

[psysicx]

So in the Guard/Reserves you just show up and fly??

 

[jayman]

Join the Guard or Reserve

Dont want the 10 year comittment...Dont want to fly a desk...want a guaranteed pilot slot...If you don'tr make it through pilot training you can quit...want to be able to fly when you want after pilot training? Join the guard or reserves man! I wish I would have known that before I busted my ass competing for a pilot slot on active duty 12 years ago. I am a reservist now and we send you guys to AF pilot training off the street via OTS or AMS. What a deal to know your airplane before you go and to know the job you will be doing when you return. After pilot training you normally get a year's worth or orders to...you guessed it...fly. After that you can usually fly trips whenever you want. Get your hours, serve you country as a true citizen soldier and land you airline job when you get your time...and guess what...after you land your airline job, you can still fly for the military as a volunteer soldier. Call your local guard or reserve AF Base and go to lunch with those guys during one of their weekend drills and get the scoop. Its a great way to serve while making your family and civilian job primary. Its a cheap way for our country to keep soldiers at the ready, but good for you if you don't want to be locked into the military.

Good Luck

 

[DaveGriffin]

At the end of the day, you're a dumb college kid. No offense, I was one 15 years ago. You may sign on to do 8 years in order to get flight training, experience and 2500 hours. You may have every intention of getting out and getting a good job with Delta (god knows that's what I wanted to do.) If things work out and you get that job, good on you. If they don't work out that way, you may still have a decent career in the military flying aircraft for 20 years. You don't have to be GI Joe to serve honorably. You just have to do your job in a professional manner and take what you can get. If you get stuck as a FAC with the 101st AB in Durga Durgastan, do the best you can and roll from there. Don't let a ****************************** bag like Dave Griffin (pogue) sway you one way or another. We're all just throwing opinions (which are like a$$holes[which are like griffins]) at you. Take them all in and make an educated decision as to what's right for YOU.

There are a lot of choices one can make. At the end of the day, don't end up going P-3 and being a per diem Nancy boy like some USN pilots that can't hack being carrier pilots. Real USN pilots fly off carriers.

 

[stonewall]

So in the Guard/Reserves you just show up and fly??

As a Traditional (part timer), the answer is yes. Of course, you need to plan, brief and debrief, too.

And tankerdriver, I don't agree with much you say and think you have a chip on your shoulder due to some bad experiences in the AF. However, I'll wager that as the A-code on a 3 hr Iraq mission, you make more critical decisions on that sortie alone than our crj boy does all month. Mission related decisions, decisions that matter. Oh, you also have to do all the stuff our crj boy does, too. Except you often don't have the luxury of calling dispatch. You fight like hell when you think some fighter guy slights you, but then you put yourself in the same category as a crj captain? Odd.

Note: This is not a slam on crj captains, but rather a compliment to USAF A/C's flying in combat.

 

[Don Q]

Show up and Fly

So in the Guard/Reserves you just show up and fly??

Not normally. I'll give you an example for a short 1.2 hr SAT (Surface Attack Tacticts) mission.
If you are flying in the morning with, let's say an 0800L (2+00 hr prior to takeoff) brief time, you either show up the day prior to plan or help paln the mission, or show up at least two hours prior that morning to mission plan (mainly if you are the Flight Lead). You start your brief at 0800L, which you will cover everything in detail. Once you are done, sometimes not having enough time to cover it all, you go suit up (G-Suit, Survival Equipment, Harness, etc), get a step brief from the Supervisor of Flying, and go to the jet about 45 min (0915L) prior to takeoff. Assuming everything goes well on ground-ops you takeoff at 1000L. You fly, a 4vX, in this case opposed SAT, leading a 4-Ship against multiple fighters. Not only you are flying your jet, but you are also making decision on what, how, when to execute. Manage the fuel of your flight and direct your wingman to target with his sensors, while watching him, and prioritizing on what's next. Once you are done with the Air-to-Air threats, you deal with your target, puttimg bombs on target on time, within a TOT (time on target) window. At the same time you will be dealing with Surfarce-to-Air missiles. All of it very challenging, but rewarding at the same time.
Once you return to the base and land, after your short 1.2 hr sortie, you stop by maintenance, turn in the forms, and/or write up any problems with the aircraft. You go get rid of your flying attire, and immediately proceed to the vault to start reviewing you tapes (so is everybody else in your flight). ONce you are done with reviewing your tapes, is when the fun starts.
Debrief starts. You know talk about everything that you as a flight lead, could've done better. Starting from questions on the brief, to ground ops, start, taxi, takeoff. Any issues on the tanker (if you used one, which most likely will extend your flight time, and work load). Then you talk about the return to base (RTB), and you leave tactics for last.
You now debrief in detail, what you and your flight member could've done better, or did wrong, and how to improve it, giving solutions and techniques. Maybe after 1 hr to 1.5 hrs (as a minimum) you are done. This is if the flight was not an upgrade.

If you do the math:
Pre-mission (planning): 2hrs
Briefing to Takeoff: 2 hrs
Takeoff to land: 1.2 hrs (not including tanker)
Land to Debrief: .4 hours (including reviewing your tapes)
Debrief: 1.4 hrs (on average)
Grand Total to fly a Short 1.2 hr Sortie: (7.0 hrs, math in public)

Now if you call that show an fly... I don't think so..

I'm not putting down any CRJ pilots out there (b/c we have a few in our squadron), but how many PIC hours compare to what I just explained?

BTW TankerDriver, you should talk to some of the mature pilots in your squadron and get some advice :smash: (by best bud is a tanker driver as well). We are all here to serve our country first. The fact that you can get 300-600 hrs a year, burning circles in the sky over... anywhere, is just the way it is. Thanks for the gas though... without you, us fighter guys can not long very far...

Showing the Love...
Cheers

 

[psysicx]

I think that counts as part of the flight. Unlike AD where you would go sit at a desk afterwards and do you side job. Do most flights take 7 hrs or is that only the flight lead? How does someone work a 9 to 5 job and do this?

 

[CameronW]

Dont want the 10 year comittment...Dont want to fly a desk...want a guaranteed pilot slot...If you don'tr make it through pilot training you can quit...want to be able to fly when you want after pilot training? Join the guard or reserves man! I wish I would have known that before I busted my ass competing for a pilot slot on active duty 12 years ago. I am a reservist now and we send you guys to AF pilot training off the street via OTS or AMS. What a deal to know your airplane before you go and to know the job you will be doing when you return. After pilot training you normally get a year's worth or orders to...you guessed it...fly. After that you can usually fly trips whenever you want. Get your hours, serve you country as a true citizen soldier and land you airline job when you get your time...and guess what...after you land your airline job, you can still fly for the military as a volunteer soldier. Call your local guard or reserve AF Base and go to lunch with those guys during one of their weekend drills and get the scoop. Its a great way to serve while making your family and civilian job primary. Its a cheap way for our country to keep soldiers at the ready, but good for you if you don't want to be locked into the military.

Good Luck

Knowing what I know now, I'd probably try for the Guard or Reserves... good points.

 

[Don Q]

I think that counts as part of the flight. Unlike AD where you would go sit at a desk afterwards and do you side job. Do most flights take 7 hrs or is that only the flight lead? How does someone work a 9 to 5 job and do this?

psysicx,

If you have any additional duties as a guardsmen, you still have to sit behind the desk and do your job.

 

[Fox-Tree]

....How does someone work a 9 to 5 job and do this?

You don't do your other job on the same day.