air force academy

[usafa]

Trapav8r, I agree about the second year. He has a friend from here that is a 3 degree, he says exactly what you said. 2nd year is really tougher. He talked to the Flying Team when he first got there. They seemed really in terested in him joining. Still very competitive though, like everythig at the Academy.

 

[Talon83]

usafa Dad

Ditto to what the others have posted. The only real advantage I ever felt I had as an Academy grad was at the beginning of UPT. In my class I had numerous friends from the Zoo, and had buddies who started training a month earlier who could give me some "gouge" while I was waiting for training to start. The ROTC, OTS, and Guard/Reserve guys needed a little more of an adjustment time. SUPT is highly structured and very similar to the Academy experience, and can be sometimes frustrating to those who aren't used to all the military rules.

As a Zoomie and 2-time UPT IP who is now retired and teaching simulators at an SUPT base, please allow me to post my 2 cents.

In my opinion, the best UPT students, and the ones I always wanted as an IP, were the Academy grads who had been Soaring IPs. They were usually better than any high time civilian pilot I ever trained for several reasons: They had a lot of highly regulated, structured military flying time, so they were used to military rules and regs. They were also used to the training environment and didn't get upset by being critiqued, as many of us pilots tend to be. Also, as former IPs, they were very good at recognizing their own flying mistakes, analyzing them, and correcting them without much help from me--they were extremely easy to teach. Finally, there just seems to be something about flying gliders that gives pilots more air sense, which I can't explain. Perhaps it's the purest form of flying, without a lot of bells and whistles to help. I don't think it is a coincidence that the top 4 grads in my UPT class were all Soaring IPs from the Academy. All the other Academy programs listed are great, including the Flying team and Aero Club, but if your son can get into the Soaring IP program (it's very competitive--I tried and didn't make it), he should have an advantage at SUPT.

However, after serving 21 years and flying with 100's of pilots and WSOs during my career, I can't ever recall caring much about their commissioning source. It's all up to the individual. Advise your son to keep a good attitude and don't fall into the tempting trap of becoming bitter and cynical while at the Academy. The best friends I still have from the Zoo are the ones who made it fun.

Cheers



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[stonewall]

What power curve?

Congrats to your son for getting in. It was an extremely tough 4 years, but I would do all over again. It's a tough place to be at, but a great place to come from. He'll make lifelong friends and have something in common with about 1/3 of all AF officers. I agree that ROTC and OTS guys are just as capable when it comes to officership and and flying skills. It really does depend on the individual, but when you spend four years at USAFA you come into the Air Force knowing there's nothing you can't hack.

Don't believe the hype about USAFA grads being behind some "power curve" or not having developed "social skills." That's garbage thrown out there by non-grads to make themselves feel better about something...what that is, I don't know. When I graduated, I knew how to do laundry, balance a checkbook, pay bills, fill my free time, and, yes, score mad chicks without making an ass of myself at a bar (that's not to say I didn't make an ass of myself on many occasions...I certainly did, and did it gladly, but it had more to do with my love of beer and Jack Daniels, not my alma mater).

Your son's social growth will not be stunted by attending a military school. I think your family made a great decision in USAFA, and I wish him well. You, too. You're going to get bombarded with "Dad, this f***** sucks and I want to come home" emails, phone calls and letters over the next 4 years. Just be positive and ride out the tough times. It WILL be worth it on graduation day, even though that seems like 69 years away.

 

[usafa]

Magnum, It's good to know someone else had to experience the same thing. I talked to my son last night and he is reading these threads. He appreciates all the encouragement. What year did you graduate? Is it true that the best offers and duty stations go to the grads with the highest GPA? Again, thanks to all for the responses.

 

[AdlerDriver]

AdlerDriver, Where did u do UPT?

Columbus AFB, MS. I guess it's still in business last time I checked. It was fun there. Love those southern belles.

 

[Spur]

Is it true that the best offers and duty stations go to the grads with the highest GPA? Again, thanks to all for the responses.

UPT assignments are offered (or at least were) by order of merit (a combination of academic and military peformance averages). #1 dude chooses base and date, then #2 and so on... Dont know anything about non flying assignments. Oh, Ditto Talon83s comments about soaring IPs.

Congrats to your son... It is worth it.

 

[usafa]

Figured the GPA,etc. was the deciding factor. Thats why I have stressed for him to keep a respectible one. He was a 4.0 in high school, but so were all the other cadets at the Academy. That requires some adjustment. But as I told him, do your very best, keep your nose clean and do what you are told. Every thing else will fall into place. I believe time management is the most important thing he has been forced learn so far. They tend to give you more work than you can get done in a given period of time, just to see how you can prioritize.

It is definitely a job AND an education and must be treated as such.
Also, the girls seem to love a guy in uniform!!

 

[qmaster3]

Figured the GPA,etc. was the deciding factor. Thats why I have stressed for him to keep a respectible one. He was a 4.0 in high school, but so were all the other cadets at the Academy. That requires some adjustment. But as I told him, do your very best, keep your nose clean and do what you are told. Every thing else will fall into place. I believe time management is the most important thing he has been forced learn so far. They tend to give you more work than you can get done in a given period of time, just to see how you can prioritize.

It is definitely a job AND an education and must be treated as such.
Also, the girls seem to love a guy in uniform!!

Good luck to your son! BTW we love the girls in uniform to

 

[Merlin'05]

Talon, Thanks for that info for myself as well. That's how I was hoping it would help. We're a lot more structured now too with the flying and are under AETC as of a few months ago.

I asked a number of other people (who I think knew nothing about it) and they got all pissed off and said it would be no help at all.

 

[Talon83]

Merlin

Don't worry about the naysayers. Stay positive. You'll still have to work hard at SUPT. It's not as if they're just going to give you your wings--you'll still have to earn them, but you should have more air sense than the average student pilot. Use your prior flying time to your advantage, be a sponge, and fly the way your IPs teach you.

Good luck. Hope to see you in the sim at Moody later this year.

Cheers

 

[mgg20]

Talon- I'm heading to OTS this August and want to go to UPT at Moody very badly (close to home). Do you or anybody else know if they even care what you put on you BOP? or do they just assign you wherever they please. Also, any tips on moving from Civ---->Mil flying would be appreciated. I'm a low time guy, so I shouldn't have too many bad habits yet. (I hope) Thanks

 

[Talon83]

mgg20

I don't know how the UPT base assignment system works. Ask for the base you want, but you'll get what the assignment folks give you. It doesn't pay to worry about it now.

For the civ-mil flying transition, just learn and fly the way your T-6/T-37 IPs teach you. As an IP, I always taught my students as if they had no time and were starting at the same point on the learning curve. You'll learn some new ways of flying. Use your civilian experiences to build on, but learn and do things the new (military) way. If there is a conflict between the two, fly the way your IPs teach you.

Good luck.

 

[Talon83]

Patmack18 Will the AF not accelerate students through that have prior time?



No, everyone gets the same sorties/hours. You'll want every sortie you can get, anyway.

 

[learherkjay]

Play rugby, drink beer, and get away on the weekend. Then the four years will be worth it!!!

And, I guess study. Having been the product of "severely reduced" pilot training slots in the early 90's, grades have a huge impact on getting to UPT if things start going south. Having just left a UPT IP job at Vance, I can tell you that the AF has been ramping up the numbers of UPT students. In four years if things calm down over in the sand box and the AF does another knee jerk cutting of available slots; USAFA will look at your grades first as they rack and stack you. My class had over 800 pilot qualified cadets and only 225 of us got slots. There were 450 students trained that entire year. So, half of all UPT students that year were Academy grads. That is where the "prospects" help by being at USAFA.
That being said, like everyone else has, nothing but a good attitude will help you once you show up at UPT. Good luck to your son. Son, get back to studying before DI. Good night....

Cheers

 

[usafa]

Learherkjay, Thanks for the info. I know my son will read this, so all comments are helpful. Hopefully when he graduates...Class of 08 (the 50th graduating class), he will have a decent chance. Since he already has his private, maybe that will help also. He seems to favor the A-10. Are slots for it hard to get, since most of the "fighter jocks" seem to favor faster equipment?