Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Air Ambulance Intel

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Are you describing a what-if situation, or are you describing what happened? Departing with a question as to whether you can return and then a death occuring on your aircraft as a result isn't a good decision, any more than departing into a condition that places your aircraft and crew in jeopardy.
 
At the outfit I'd like to get on with, they don't even tell you the circumstances of the patient. They only ask if the flight is possible.

In medical flying, the patient is already dead. When I flew LifeFlight the hospital's standard request was "Check the weather, call us back if it's OK." Never any mention of the patient.
 
Having a life in the balance adds a dynamic that most of us wouldn't ever have to consider for most any other trip we fly.
that's my $0.02 worth.
Yes, it's hard to put that information aside when the patient roles up in an ambulance and your company is stupid enough to put a distraught family member in the right seat with you.

I flew my share of transplant teams and expediting was even worse than normal air ambulance missions.

Many missions require leaving with no idea about actual weather conditions, it's just part of the program when there is no instrument approach at the destination. Maybe not the best paying job in the world but very rewarding.
 
Yes, it's hard to put that information aside when the patient roles up in an ambulance and your company is stupid enough to put a distraught family member in the right seat with you.

It had better not be hard to put the safety of flight first.

I spent a lot of time in ambulances as a firefighter-EMT working on people, as well as flying them from A to B. On occasion I met a volunteer EMT who had emotional issues, once in a while because they knew the victim. I invited them to leave. You're no good if you can't be objective and place the safety of flight, and therefore the needs of the patient, first.

One of the most important things you can say when asked to take an ambulance trip, is NO. Being able to say in the interest of safety, despite any other tales of need and woe, is critical to your longevity and that of the patient.

There are no "hiropilots" in EMS flying. Being a hero will get you killed. It does no good rushing a medical patient to the hospital and killing them on the way.

I flew my share of transplant teams and expediting was even worse than normal air ambulance missions.

I also flew my share of transplants in turboprops and turbojets...and there was never any "expediting." Every flight a normal, routine flight. It can be done quickly, safely, but the pressure on the pilot should be zero. On one occasion, while preparing to fly the approach into Mountain Home, Idaho at night, we determined that the weather had worsened. We had no de-ice, and with hoar frost forming and freezing fog, the airplane would be unsafe when the crew returned from the hospital with a heart. The heart was waiting down there for us, the crew on board. We advised them we were cancelling and went home. Our decision making process did not include the patient, did not include the heart; it included what we knew we could safely do as pilots.

I've done a lot of emergency flying, medical, fire, law enfocement, emergency supplies, etc. I've flown people who were desperate to quickly reach a dying relative to spend the last few minutes. One things I learned long ago is that fast hands kill. If you wouldn't do something on a bright, sunny, calm, clear day with nothin to do but loaf around, then don't do it on an emergency flight.

Do you know that most jurisdictions have laws preventing emergency vehicles such as fire engines and ambulances from exceeding the speed limit by 10 mph...on their way to the scene? True enough...because there have been too many crashes of emergency vehicles on their way to the scene...creating new emergencies, and not only failing to help out at the scene, but causing more casualties, more victims.

We don't need that in an air ambulance situaiton.

If you find yourself saying "I wouldn't normally do this, but this is an emergency," then you should see a big, red flag waving over your head and know that you're in error. If you wouldn't normally do it, then don't do it.

Many missions require leaving with no idea about actual weather conditions, it's just part of the program when there is no instrument approach at the destination. Maybe not the best paying job in the world but very rewarding.

How is this legally justified under Part 135?

You've at least got an area forecast. The destination may not have a terminal forecast...but you've got something to go on, and certainly must have something to meet your 135 requirements.

I always found I had enough time on the way to the airplane to file and brief, including establishing an alternate, while the medical crew arrived and boarded...to do it right. I knew others who subscribed to the panic mentality..."It's an emergency. Just go!" Very, very wrong.

When I flew LifeFlight the hospital's standard request was "Check the weather, call us back if it's OK." Never any mention of the patient.

This is how it should be.
 
while the medical crew arrived and boarded...to do it right. I knew others who subscribed to the panic mentality..."It's an emergency. Just go!" Very, very wrong
I have a hard time believing you were cool and collected about anything considering how defensive you are on your self imposed pedestal that you make for yourself.

Maybe I didn't live in your perfect world, in my 135 experience, rules were broken, the key to safety in my opinion is not necessarily following all the rules and regulations, but knowing your own limitations. With 10+ years experience in 135, I have yet to see an operator that doesn't occasionally break the rules.

My experience includes neonates, transplant teams and normal transport stuff, predominantly in New Mexico, Colorado and Arizona. Many airports have no instrument approaches, and with MEA's from 10,000 to 16,000 feet, most reports were useless, were there ways to do it legally, yes.

As far as the speed limit on an emergency vehicle, thanks for filling me in, on my last transplant, a heart for a senator, the police car was doing 90MPH all the way to the airport, the town was Tupelo, MS if you'd like to report them.

Sorry, I didn't live in your perfect world and think you may be just a bit naive for thinking there is one, I am a long way from ambulance operations now and still haven't found it. :rolleyes:
 
My experience includes neonates, transplant teams and normal transport stuff, predominantly in New Mexico, Colorado and Arizona. Many airports have no instrument approaches, and with MEA's from 10,000 to 16,000 feet, most reports were useless, were there ways to do it legally, yes.
I operated ambulance in the same area and always found a way to do it legally, in compliance with the regulation. It's a shame you were unable.

Sorry, I didn't live in your perfect world and think you may be just a bit naive for thinking there is one, I am a long way from ambulance operations now and still haven't found it.
Perhaps. In my many years of aerial firefighting emergency operations, law enforcment surveillance and emergency operations, and air ambulance/air evac emergency operations, etc...I suppose I never found the need to panic and break rules like you did. Chances are I did it a lot longer and a lot more than you, over a substantially wider area of operations...but perhaps given a few more years of experience I'll learn to place imagined needs above the safe and legal operation of the aircraft, too.

But I doubt it.

Maybe I didn't live in your perfect world, in my 135 experience, rules were broken, the key to safety in my opinion is not necessarily following all the rules and regulations, but knowing your own limitations. With 10+ years experience in 135, I have yet to see an operator that doesn't occasionally break the rules.
You advocate violation of the regulation. Interesting.

I found that operating by the premise that while one may be safe but not legal, and legal but not safe...operating legally and safely all the time offered the best protection to the customer, employer, and to me.

You can justify your illegal operation any way you like. It's wrong, of course. Justification is the narcotic of the soul. You, apparently, are an addict.

A professional, on the other hand, knows when to say no...if it's unsafe or illegal, that's the time. You apparently never figured that out. Pity.
 
professional
Panic? How do you assume that I've panicked, I don't ever recall panicking in my experience as a pilot, maybe you can refresh my memory. As I said, in my experiences in 135 operations, there were no operators that I worked for the complied fully with regulations. I really don't think you have a clue what a real professional is, I have had a very successful career and can receive recommendations from all still in business.

You can justify your illegal operation any way you like. It's wrong, of course. Justification is the narcotic of the soul. You, apparently, are an addict
Please state the name of the air ambulance companies you worked for, chances are that I am familiar with them, I was in that area from 81 to 96, I would be curious to know what companies in that area were complying fully with regs. :rolleyes:
 
Based on what you've said, you wouldn't know them. Compliance seems somewhat outside your realm of experience, and your personal preference.
 
I operated ambulance in the same area and always found a way to do it legally, in compliance with the regulation. It's a shame you were unable.

Yeah I'm curious which operator you worked for also, with the level of sanctimony you're displaying. I know that turf pretty well too. Perhaps you didn't have the same challenges that the rest of us had.
 
I'm not going to cite the employers here; other than to state they're no longer in business.

Even in uncontrolled operations in Class G under Part 135, operating rules and regulations apply...even on dirt airstrips on the reservation, they still apply.

If you find compliance with the regulation to be sanctimony, you've got a serious problem.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top