Age 65

[OPECJet]

The only pilots screwed were those forced to retire at 60 and lost around one million in income that guys like Hamburger will earn in those 5 extra years, if they so chose.

Gotta disagree with you there. Out of the extra possible five years, three of those will be spent in the lesser paying right seat, if not more due to the stagnation.

The truth of the matter is that when age 65 came down the hill, it created a few new groups of pilots. Captains who are happy they get to spend another five years in the seat, captains who are pissed they HAVE to spend another five years in the seat, and FOs who are pissed we had to spend another 3-5 in the cheap seat hearing a member of one of the previous groups complain for hours on end about the subject du-jour while pretending to listen.

 

[phishn@daves]

Gotta disagree with you there. Out of the extra possible five years, three of those will be spent in the lesser paying right seat, if not more due to the stagnation.

The truth of the matter is that when age 65 came down the hill, it created a few new groups of pilots. Captains who are happy they get to spend another five years in the seat, captains who are pissed they HAVE to spend another five years in the seat, and FOs who are pissed we had to spend another 3-5 in the cheap seat hearing a member of one of the previous groups complain for hours on end about the subject du-jour while pretending to listen.

Where is the "like" button?

 

[Helmsalee]

Get over it, guys. Age 65 caused less disruption to careers than Deregulation did. Think of all the consolidation, companies going bankrupt (some out of business, some just dumping debt and pensions), others starting up, commuter partners, etc. Total lack of stability in the industry. Race to the bottom in salaries and working conditions.

My point is, quit worrying about history. You can't change it. Look to the threats on the horizon and there are plenty. I'll let you consider what would hurt you most.
Helm

 

[OPECJet]

Get over it, guys. Age 65 caused less disruption to careers than Deregulation did. Think of all the consolidation, companies going bankrupt (some out of business, some just dumping debt and pensions), others starting up, commuter partners, etc. Total lack of stability in the industry. Race to the bottom in salaries and working conditions.

My point is, quit worrying about history. You can't change it. Look to the threats on the horizon and there are plenty. I'll let you consider what would hurt you most.
Helm

Good post.

 

[Hamburger]

The only pilots screwed were those forced to retire at 60 and lost around one million in income that guys like Hamburger will earn in those 5 extra years, if they so chose. That's the kind of choice I prefer to have. Greed? Hardly. As mentioned elsewhere, it's called opportunity.

The math has been explained. You're too stupid to crunch the numbers, that can't be helped.

Gotta disagree with you there. Out of the extra possible five years, three of those will be spent in the lesser paying right seat, if not more due to the stagnation.

Shhhh.
Don't bother with simple math.
The "real truth" is that taking more than anybody before you had and anybody after will have makes everyone else greedy. Feeling that you are entitled to more than your father or your son is ok as long as you make a point to call the people you are taking it from the "entitlement crowd"

 

[Hamburger]

My point is, quit worrying about history. You can't change it. Look to the threats on the horizon and there are plenty. I'll let you consider what would hurt you most.
Helm

Yeah. I HAVE been worrying about this since it was on the horizon. The history is that, not only has it has hurt us more than any other single event in our career, it's the guy sitting next to us that is doing it.

Do you give the same advice to guys who got their pensions stolen by management?

They have taken hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our pockets and put it in their own. Period.
Tell me how they are better than pension robbing executives who did the exact same thing.
Tell yourself whatever you please, but this is the FACT and nothing can change it.

 

[Helmsalee]

Some people are always looking the other way. They never see the bus that runs over them.
Helm

 

[jppt2000]

Hamburger shouldn't you be a cheeseburger?
Isn't that a slice of cheese peeking out from under the lettuce?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Some people are always looking the other way. They never see the bus that runs over them.
Helm

True. Age 60 isn't ever coming back. Some people need to get over it. Imagine how he's going to feel when they up the age to 70!

 

[AftCG182]

True. Age 60 isn't ever coming back. Some people need to get over it. Imagine how he's going to feel when they up the age to 70!

Age 70... Great idea! Then I might be able to work long enough to actually pay off my student loan before I croak!

 

[Helmsalee]

How about cabotage or foreign ownership or any of a dozen other things out there?
Helm

 

[rajflyboy]

Get over it, guys. Age 65 caused less disruption to careers than Deregulation did. Think of all the consolidation, companies going bankrupt (some out of business, some just dumping debt and pensions), others starting up, commuter partners, etc. Total lack of stability in the industry. Race to the bottom in salaries and working conditions.

My point is, quit worrying about history. You can't change it. Look to the threats on the horizon and there are plenty. I'll let you consider what would hurt you most.
Helm

I completely disagree. Think of how many people on the bottom you guys are F@@king over. The flight instructors, regional airline SIC's, etc, etc. No consideration is being given to the people starting off in this career.

Retire at 60 you mofo's

 

[gret]

I completely disagree. Think of how many people on the bottom you guys are F@@king over. The flight instructors, regional airline SIC's, etc, etc. No consideration is being given to the people starting off in this career.

Retire at 60 you mofo's

Nice way to win friends and influence people.

Do you really believe what you wrote?

 

[rajflyboy]

Nice way to win friends and influence people.

Do you really believe what you wrote?

Have you ever taught people to fly and or been an SIC making 20G a year?

 

[rajflyboy]

Gotta disagree with you there. Out of the extra possible five years, three of those will be spent in the lesser paying right seat, if not more due to the stagnation.

The truth of the matter is that when age 65 came down the hill, it created a few new groups of pilots. Captains who are happy they get to spend another five years in the seat, captains who are pissed they HAVE to spend another five years in the seat, and FOs who are pissed we had to spend another 3-5 in the cheap seat hearing a member of one of the previous groups complain for hours on end about the subject du-jour while pretending to listen.

I agree 100 percent with you here!

 

[gret]

Have you ever taught people to fly and or been an SIC making 20G a year?

Nope...but I've pitched cow manure, baled hay, milked cows, and slopped hogs for $1/day plus room and board.

Maybe it is time to think of a new career if you this unhappy.

 

[rajflyboy]

Nope...but I've pitched cow manure, baled hay, milked cows, and slopped hogs for $1/day plus room and board.

Maybe it is time to think of a new career if you this unhappy.

Gret has never done anything wrong in her/his entire life! Perfection!

You'd figure that someone that has picked up cow******************** would understand that this is a free country and I'm allowed to have an opinion.

 

[gret]

Close, but no cigar. My wife criticized me once, then admitted she made a mistake.

As one man with supreme intellect said on this board, the supply of pilots today is more than the what the market needs, which results in no need for pilot salaries to increase. If one person doesn't want to do the job for the money offered, then somebody else will. If you're unhappy, do something about it and get a new career where demand exists and salaries are higher.

I don't like it any better than anybody else, but it is a fact, it is real, and it is right now. Taking pot shots at people who have a wealth of experience, knowledge, and did their time is silly and disrespectful. They, in most cases, deserve their position in the workplace and we should learn from them...and I'm not close to 60.

 

[rajflyboy]

Close, but no cigar. My wife criticized me once, then admitted she made a mistake.

As one man with supreme intellect said on this board, the supply of pilots today is more than the what the market needs, which results in no need for pilot salaries to increase. If one person doesn't want to do the job for the money offered, then somebody else will. If you're unhappy, do something about it and get a new career where demand exists and salaries are higher.

I don't like it any better than anybody else, but it is a fact, it is real, and it is right now. Taking pot shots at people who have a wealth of experience, knowledge, and did their time is silly and disrespectful. They, in most cases, deserve their position in the workplace and we should learn from them...and I'm not close to 60.

Well I guess you haven't kept up with the times. Most of the majors are starting to hire now and the forecast is for many many pilot retirements over the next 5 to 7 years. USAIR alone is predicting 350 ish a year retirements for the next 5 years. Its expensive now to learn how to fly and many flight schools have closed. We could very well have a pilot shortage in as soon as 5 years from now. More retirements would only help pilots in the future.

...... just saying.....

 

[Helmsalee]

Just saying, do you have any idea how many pilots USAir has on furlough?

 

[Semore Butts]

Yes, I have made much less then 20K a year

carrying an M-16.

I know alot of guys at Netjets that have gone from furlough to furlough and corporate flight department closures one after another, to where they are now at Netjets;

In there mid 50's, (or above) with very limited assets.

Even you young guys just got mashed in 2008 and 9 right? How far did that set you back as far as income planning?

Oh well, no matter, we don't have age 65 at the FRAX and likely never will.

For me personally, I hope the hell I am retired by 65.

If you wanted my seat you should have come to Netjets in 2002. If you didn't, how is that my fault?

There is alot going on these days, I for one am saving every nickel I can get, and looking for part time work and a business as well.

As I have said before, nobody knows what the future may hold. Don't try to come up with yet another rule that may screw you in the end?

Genius's like you should be in the back of the airplane, whats the deal?

 

[rajflyboy]

carrying an M-16.

I know alot of guys at Netjets that have gone from furlough to furlough and corporate flight department closures one after another, to where they are now at Netjets;

In there mid 50's, (or above) with very limited assets.

Even you young guys just got mashed in 2008 and 9 right? How far did that set you back as far as income planning?

Oh well, no matter, we don't have age 65 at the FRAX and likely never will.

For me personally, I hope the hell I am retired by 65.

If you wanted my seat you should have come to Netjets in 2002. If you didn't, how is that my fault?

There is alot going on these days, I for one am saving every nickel I can get, and looking for part time work and a business as well.

As I have said before, nobody knows what the future may hold. Don't try to come up with yet another rule that may screw you in the end?

Genius's like you should be in the back of the airplane, whats the deal?

I actually agree with 95 percent of your comments here! I know there are a few that have to work for various reasons. I can understand that.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Have you ever taught people to fly and or been an SIC making 20G a year?

No, I was a Navy 0-1 trying to support a family on $900 a month BEFORE taxes. Wait your turn.

 

[Grizz]

I was doing $366 a month as a Navy guy back in 70s when I started this journey. I was up to just over $600 a month by the time I got married. Party time.

 

[gret]

Doubtful that this guy would have much patience for a few of the people posting on this board...he worked hard, used his brains, and didn't ask for anything from anybody, but himself-

..."Bruce Paddock was a working-class kid who delivered newspapers and pumped gas when he wasn't in class or playing ball at Duluth East High School 45 years ago.

By the end of this summer, Paddock expects to close on the $540 million sale of his family-owned Paddock Laboratories, a maker of specialty and generic drugs, to Perrigo Co. of Michigan."...

http://www.startribune.com/business/118685964.html?page=1&c=y

​

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[pilotyip]

Doubtful that this guy would have much patience for a few of the people posting on this board...he worked hard, used his brains, and didn't ask for anything from anybody, but himself-

..."Bruce Paddock was a working-class kid who delivered newspapers and pumped gas when he wasn't in class or playing ball at Duluth East High School 45 years ago.

By the end of this summer, Paddock expects to close on the $540 million sale of his family-owned Paddock Laboratories, a maker of specialty and generic drugs, to Perrigo Co. of Michigan."...

http://www.startribune.com/business/118685964.html?page=1&c=y

​

great post, sums it all up, if you want to sucedd by working your tail off, there is no place like the USA. Meet this guy at Rotarty meeting a 26 year old millionaire, started a lawn mowing service in high school, sold it the summer of his senior year for $250,000. Paid for college, started tearing down old houses in Detroit while in school. After graduation from college he went nationwide on tear down, now reconstruction, has offices in four cities, 142 employees, and over 10M in sales. He says one of his secrets is if you do not want ot work as hard as him, you will not get hired.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

great post, sums it all up, if you want to sucedd by working your tail off, there is no place like the USA. Meet this guy at Rotarty meeting a 26 year old millionaire, started a lawn mowing service in high school, sold it the summer of his senior year for $250,000. Paid for college, started tearing down old houses in Detroit while in school. After graduation from college he went nationwide on tear down, now reconstruction, has offices in four cities, 142 employees, and over 10M in sales. He says one of his secrets is if you do not want ot work as hard as him, you will not get hired.

Try telling that to the new bottom 300 folks about to get kicked in the nuts at NJ. Hard work from the pilots is about the only thing holding that house of cards together at this point and look where its gotten them.

As long as you don't have David Sokol types running a company, then hard work might actually pay off. Unfortunately there are more Sokol and JO's running companies in this country than the 26 year old millionaire above.

 

[pilotyip]

Try telling that to the new bottom 300 folks about to get kicked in the nuts at NJ. Hard work from the pilots is about the only thing holding that house of cards together at this point and look where its gotten them.

As long as you don't have David Sokol types running a company, then hard work might actually pay off. Unfortunately there are more Sokol and JO's running companies in this country than the 26 year old millionaire above.

So NJ should have continued loosing $M's to maintain the status quote? Have uncle WB sent in a a couple 100M each year to make everyone happy. BTW I know about five of the 300, they all seem to be doing fine.

 

[LAZYB]

So NJ should have continued loosing $M's to maintain the status quote? Have uncle WB sent in a a couple 100M each year to make everyone happy. BTW I know about five of the 300, they all seem to be doing fine.

Nah Randy you're talkin about the previous 395...

Not the 300 now being threatened.

 

[gret]

For crying out loud...when are people going to realize that they are not guaranteed a job?

If they don't need the current number of employees, no matter what job they perform, the employer has the right to reduce the workforce to match up with the current level of business.