AGE 65 Victory Party

[PCL_128]

...... but if Obama is elected, there will be a new makeup of the Supreme Court..... The new makeup will declare that the law is not in violation of the Constitution because they will say that a "well regulated militia" only applies to the military.....

This case will probably be settled before the election anyway, but I'll play your little game for sh--s and giggles.

Given this distinct possibility if Obama is elected, answer the following questions....

1. Will that law passed by Congress in your example still be "unconstitutional"?

The Constitution grants the authority of interpretation to the Supreme Court, so they are the final authority as to whether something is unconstitutional or not. If they determine that such a bill is legal, then I would disagree (just as I do with Roe v Wade), but that would be the official law of the land.

2. Will you abide by that law if it is passed and Obama's Supreme Court upholds it?

I would not, but I would accept whatever consequences came as a result. If I used one of my guns in self defense, then I would be prepared to go to jail for it.

3. Will you still support Obama?

I wouldn't support him on that issue, but overall, yes. You seem to think that you have to agree with someone on every issue to support them. But just as I disagree with ALPA about the Age-65 rule and still support them overall, I could disagree with Obama on gun control and still support him overall.

4. What will you think of people like me who disregard the new law?

I will expect you to deal with the consequences of breaking the law, just like any other criminal.

If we had a "Supreme Court" for ALPA, the CCAir case may have been different...

What ALPA has is better than the Supreme Court. The Supremes are appointed, and therefore not accountable to anyone. ALPA has a system of checks and balances through the BOD, EC, and EB that are all elected representatives that are accountable for their actions.

 

[mdf]

Oh please...you really think that the 390 representatives are celebrating over this vote? You're age preferences are really not all that important in an election year.

C'mon...this one is a minor one, being voted on at night, nothing more than clearing out the schedule before the Christmas break.

Those guys celebrate over the big votes...not minor ones like this one.

And where does this leave the 45 representatives that chose not to vote on this one at all?

Just a poll question...but how many of those 435 Representatives will be re-relected in November 2008? Of those that don't come back, I can assure you that it will not be due to a vote ( or not ) on a stupid little age change bill.

Big scheme of things...you really think the American public cares about the complaints of an airline pilot who works only 12 days a month and makes over $100,000 per year?

You are not that important...

I think you missed the point of my post entirely. I was merely adding a dose of reality for all the folks who think was some great victory for the profession. I think I spelled it all out very clearly. After all my points, I find it curious you wish to debate that portion of my post. I think you need to read it again.

 

[waveflyer]

Rez-
I get your point. That's acknowledged-
When can we talk about leadership?

Why do we have a national union, if they are powerless to have a plan and lead each MEC in their role to increase leverage nationwide? Are you implying that ALPA national doesn't make decisions that affect each MECs ability to make decisions?

Have you read atlas shrugged yet?

 

[Flopgut]

Oh please...you really think that the 390 representatives are celebrating over this vote?...

I think they are celebrating. For a profession that clearly deserves more in pension reform, job security, and bankruptsy reform, (along with a review of the ATSB) just to name a few, to accept an incredibly marginal improvement in such a devisive way, is a victory to them! These men and women differ in extraordinary ways, but at the end of the day when they vote on a pay raise they take care of each other.

They are celebrating all right! Because thanks to guys like you, we are a joke!

 

[Sluggo_63]

I spoke with a FX contact today... the way the company is handling the bid is BS... disapointed...

So you blame FedEx for this, and not the change in the Age-60 law?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez-
I get your point. That's acknowledged-
When can we talk about leadership?

We always talk about the leadership... but when I want to talk about membership repsonsibilities...no one wants to look inthe mirror... fearing what they will see....

Here is the problem.... I can cleary talk about the leadership failures... but if I do, then everyone will jump up and say... "see see... there is the problem"... now, they won't adhere to thier obligations to particapte, vote, educate, inform...

Why do we have a national union, if they are powerless to have a plan and lead each MEC in their role to increase leverage nationwide?

Good question.... one the problems with ALPA... the MEC's function as individual Iraqi tribes, with war loards only concerned about themsleves? How do we change that? Got any good ideas?

Are you implying that ALPA national doesn't make decisions that affect each MECs ability to make decisions?

I think its very complex... what issue are you specficially talking about?

Have you read atlas shrugged yet?

On my reading list.....


The puzzle is complex....

one...just one of the solutions is each member functioning as a professional....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So you blame FedEx for this, and not the change in the Age-60 law?

I try, as difficult as it is, to reject the blame game...

Whereas, I seem perfectly content to remind members of thier obligation to particapte in the democractic process of thier careers...

Block meetings at the AOC..... next door in the rec room you got guys playing pool, reading, etc...

Someone comes in and says.. hey fellas, there is an ALPA meeting in progress.... the poolballs still clacking...

For all the MIL guys that are all about defending freedom and democracy they turn around and reject it when it is representing thier careers. Explain that?


I've no position on Age 60/65. I just think ALPA pilots had an obligation to particapte in the process.... in majority numbers...

 

[PCL_128]

I've no position on Age 60/65. I just think ALPA pilots had an obligation to particapte in the process.... in majority numbers...

What a frickin' concept! People participating in something that directly affects them. Who woulda thunk it? Apparently not ALPA members.

 

[jke406]

blah, blah blah....it's like a broken record from the radical ALPAists...

answer this question, ALPA stooges:

WHY AM I PAYING YOU MONEY IF YOU'RE NOT REPRESENTING MY INTERESTS?

I'd rather see my dues go towards Prater's double-chin reduction than whatever they're going towards right now...which is....?

 

[PCL_128]

WHY AM I PAYING YOU MONEY IF YOU'RE NOT REPRESENTING MY INTERESTS?

Why do I pay taxes even though I don't agree with 100% of what the government does with it? Should I just stop paying? What would happen if everyone stopped paying because their pet issue wasn't being handled in the way they wanted it to be handled? How would society continue to function? Why do you feel that your selfish interests are more important and more valid than the interests of the majority?

 

[jke406]

Why do I pay taxes even though I don't agree with 100% of what the government does with it? Should I just stop paying? What would happen if everyone stopped paying because their pet issue wasn't being handled in the way they wanted it to be handled? How would society continue to function? Why do you feel that your selfish interests are more important and more valid than the interests of the majority?

Because this is not socialism. This is not a country where I should feel obligated to roll over and take it in the a$$ for the "common good."

This is where we are free to further our individual best interests and NOT have to pay a bunch of union clowns to tell us what we want.

I think the communist party in China is hiring, if you and Rez really want to feel at home.

P.S. If you really disagree with "100% of what the government is doing," you are free to leave any time.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

I try, as difficult as it is, to reject the blame game...

Whereas, I seem perfectly content to remind members of thier obligation to particapte in the democractic process of thier careers...

Block meetings at the AOC..... next door in the rec room you got guys playing pool, reading, etc...

Someone comes in and says.. hey fellas, there is an ALPA meeting in progress.... the poolballs still clacking...

For all the MIL guys that are all about defending freedom and democracy they turn around and reject it when it is representing thier careers. Explain that?


I've no position on Age 60/65. I just think ALPA pilots had an obligation to particapte in the process.... in majority numbers...

Huh? Obligation?

Oh, you mean because of agency shop? Or is it because of how important my opinion is to the leadership?

Nice try though.

 

[PCL_128]

Because this is not socialism. This is not a country where I should feel obligated to roll over and take it in the a$$ for the "common good.

America is not a socialist country, yet you are required to pay your taxes even if you disagree with what the government does with your money. How is this any different than ALPA's agency shop clauses that require a contribution, even when you don't necessarily agree with what ALPA is doing? ALPA is no more socialist than America is, because the basic principles that created America also created ALPA: democracy.

P.S. If you really disagree with "100% of what the government is doing," you are free to leave any time.

I didn't say that I disagree with everything the government is doing, merely that I don't agree with every single thing that they do. In other words, I agree with some things, and disagree with others. The fact that I disagree with how the government spends the portion of my money that goes to welfare doesn't entitle me to stop paying my taxes. Likewise, the fact that you disagree with how ALPA handled the Age 60 issue or any other issue doesn't entitle you to not pay dues to the organization that represents you.

 

[jke406]

America is not a socialist country, yet you are required to pay your taxes even if you disagree with what the government does with your money. How is this any different than ALPA's agency shop clauses that require a contribution, even when you don't necessarily agree with what ALPA is doing? ALPA is no more socialist than America is, because the basic principles that created America also created ALPA: democracy. I didn't say that I disagree with everything the government is doing, merely that I don't agree with every single thing that they do. In other words, I agree with some things, and disagree with others. The fact that I disagree with how the government spends the portion of my money that goes to welfare doesn't entitle me to stop paying my taxes. Likewise, the fact that you disagree with how ALPA handled the Age 60 issue or any other issue doesn't entitle you to not pay dues to the organization that represents you.

The difference is, federal and state governments contain "checks and balances" written into their constitutions to ensure that there are no Praters who can roll in and completely subvert citizens' desires at will, simply because he won one election.

Checks and balances...ALPA must have "forgotten" to institute those.

Don't compare the rudimentary corruption at ALPA with our constitution. Not gonna work. Unless, of course, ALPA is also going to provide national defense, a system of courts, etc, etc.

Not holding my breath. I want my money back.

 

[PCL_128]

The difference is, federal and state governments contain "checks and balances" written into their constitutions to ensure that there are no Praters who can roll in and completely subvert citizens' desires at will simply because he won one election.

ALPA's C & BLs also contain those checks and balances. Doesn't do much good when the membership is so apathetic and ignorant that they don't know how to use that system of checks and balances. There are many avenues that the membership can use to fix the Prater problem, but as usual, the lazy membership will do nothing. Don't blame ALPA, blame yourselves.

I want my money back.

You could always try suing. That worked out well for the RJDC losers. They ended up with 7 figure legal bills and nothing to show for it. Have fun with that.

 

[jke406]

You could always try suing. That worked out well for the RJDC losers. They ended up with 7 figure legal bills and nothing to show for it. Have fun with that.

Exactly the smug, fat-cat attitude that illustrates to what extent corrupt ALPA "leaders" are completely out-of-touch with their constituents. Thank you for proving my point.


Classic ALPA buck-passing: "It's the lazy members' fault we are corrupt and out of touch."

 

[PCL_128]

Exactly the smug, fat-cat attitude that illustrates to what extent corrupt ALPA "leaders" are completely out-of-touch with their members. Thank you for proving my point.

Newsflash: I'm not an ALPA "fat-cat." I don't even work for an ALPA carrier anymore. I'm just a devoted fan.

 

[jke406]

Newsflash: I'm not an ALPA "fat-cat." I don't even work for an ALPA carrier anymore. I'm just a devoted fan.

OK, great. Either way, you're doing a great job of toting the party line.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Exactly the smug, fat-cat attitude that illustrates to what extent corrupt ALPA "leaders" are completely out-of-touch with their constituents. Thank you for proving my point.


Classic ALPA buck-passing: "It's the lazy members' fault we are corrupt and out of touch."

Huh? Obligation?

Oh, you mean because of agency shop? Or is it because of how important my opinion is to the leadership?

Nice try though.

What are the responsibilites and obligations of the membership?

Pay dues?



And if they do pay dues and aren't satisfied what should/can they do about it?

Do they have a democratic responsibility to particapte?

 

[PCL_128]

OK, great. Either way, you're doing a great job of toting the party line.

And you're doing a great job of dissenting, despite not knowing what you're talking about.