AGE 65 Victory Party

[Benhuntn]

I happen to love sour grapes and this posted has sated my desire. Now I go read some meaningful post somewhere else.

 

[Flopgut]

The pilots who end up doing the worst things to their fellow pilots all start out talking like Rez.

 

[Flopgut]

Okay, I am going to reply to this thread even though it is of very little use.

The age 65 change had nothing to do with how well prepared the senior folks were. It had nothing to do with the ICAO, APAAD, ALPA, SWAPA, or whatever other alphabet organization you want to throw out there. It had to do with one thing, and that was "who is going to write the check". That being the check to cover all these recently retired folks who lost their pension. Our underfunded, and over budget govt. had a few choices to make. The first, and most sensible would be to hold companies, and mgt responsible. If they did that they would be leaving all their CEO/Lawyer type buddies out in the cold. This would have been hard to do since most politicians used to be lawyers, who now make laws. The second choice would be to push it off on someone else, mainly the taxpayer. That would be you, and I. The ironic twist here is that by keeping pilots working 5 extra years kills a few birds with one stone. Just a few listed here:

1. They won't be collecting PBC money
2. They will continue paying taxes
3. They will keep their 401k money balances which will help keep money mgt. fee's churning
4. They will lose some of the best years of their lives, and will probably increase their chances of death before age 65, thus never going on the govt. books at all.

What has really happened is another govt. bailout by the employee. A self imposed B scale if you will. So I don't know what all the cheering is about.

The only real victory party going on here is the one they are having in D.C. You know those guys who voted 390-0 in favor of this law. I am sure they are at the club smoking fine cigars, and sipping brandy, giggling like mad over this moral crusade.

I like this post!

I'd like to remind: It (this change, this way) doesn't share the pain. If it did it probably would have been too much to sneak by. The guys who would have retired in 08? They're in the club with a cigar as well.

Case in point: Undaunted flyer said on here he'd be happy to get re-hired at UAL and fly from the bottom of the list. Last I read, he supports filing a lawsuit for his old seniority!? He wanted the seniority AND the law changed!!

I think every pilot over 60 should be encouraged to bid one quarter per year of reserve.

 

[Whataburger]

FedEx - Dozens of awarded Captain bids pulled due to 65.

CAL - 37 Captains bumped due to 65.


PIPE

SWA - Well over 100 upgrades NOT gonna happen in '08 due to age 65, and less hiring, etc, etc.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

mdf- well said

Rez- i agree w/ some of your points on apathy- but also think that there are things that alpa has done that increase that apathy instead of promote it. That being said-= i do have a question:

I agree... ALPA has made allot of mistakes... so.. should I work to learn from the mistakes or withdraw? Which is more effective?

I'm an FO not making a whole lot- and yet my 2% is more than my cell phone, internet, or car insurance.

Have you factored in the IRS deduction? In addtion, as an FO you'd be making less if you weren't at an union carrier...

Aren't the majority of your arguments kind of like hiring a guy to mow your lawn and then have him tell you to help him mow?

No. Did we hire ALPA? Are the expectations of what professional career representation is or should be valid? And if so? Why?

I shouldn't have to tell comcast how to run their company- or help them do it- I just want my internet to work- and since i'm paying them for that- isn't that a justified sentiment?

ahhh.. the service mentality....

Why should an ALPA pilot, volunteer his/her free time and others don't? A guy with a wife and two kids gives up his free time and a single guy gets programmed surfing the message boards and decides ALPA suxs.... What is wrong with this picture?

Office space: "what exactly... would you say ... you do here??" Seriously- if it's ALL our fault- what are we paying for?

Good question..... why not..... not pay for it and see what happens....

Liken it to paying taxes... if you decided to not pay taxes.. would the services (police/fire etc..) that we take for granted still be available....??

Unions are self government... democracy... democracy means compromise.... do you get everything you want in your family relationships? If your marriage is healthy then you don't.... there is plenty of compromise...

Leadership matters- and leaders don't blame those they lead.

Fine. What responsibilites does the membership have? If you want to talk about the leadership, blame and responsibility, then we also get to talk about membership responsibility...

No one has yet to answer this question....

What responsibilities does the membership have?

It's not too much to expect some leadership AND results for all the money we give.

Why? The leadership is elected by a minority!! The elected reps that the ALPA members sent to the BOD elected Prater. But it all started with each member. Simply put... the memberships apathy gave the BOD the leeway to vote in the current President.

In addition, satisfaction with Woerth was low.. so a new Pres is elected and guys are not happy with him? So what is the deal? The membership is never happy! Is there a problem with democracy? Is the alternative better? If so... what is the alternative?

Is it too much to expect ALPA national to have a plan and be accountable to it?

Is it too much to expect the membership to adhere to its repsonsibilites?

As professionals and Air Line Captains I find it regressive that we are quick to place the blame game. Why is it that ALPA members expect so much from thier leadership but are willing to do so little themselves...

Recall.... you elected the leadership.... well... that is is if you were part of the 1/3 (minority) that bother to particapte in the LEC election...

Look man.... I hear what the membership is saying... but what comes first (chicken/egg) active membership or effective leadership....

What can you control? Your individual participation.

What can you influence? Your union leadership.


Look.. ALPA is not perfect.. we have allot of problems... but rejecting the union when member particaption is minimal isn't going to solve problems...

Many pilots simply operate as if unions shoud be thier personal career agent. Why? Why do you think a democracy unlike gov't should cater to your own expectations... There are 60,000 pilots that each want something different from ALPA. Can anyone or any organization make 60,000 pilots happy?


There is a serious expectation problem. Where do these expectations come from? Manage your expectations...!!

I am not saying unions/ALPA/gov't, democracies basically, are all things wonderful. We have big problems... but the smart, effective and engaged guys.. work the issues.. they stay focused on task, with education, information, relationships, teamwork and empathy... all boring stuff I know.... but that is how the founding fathers formated our democracy...

To withdraw is regreesive.... If the inflight emergency doesn't meant your expectations do you slide the seat back and say... this suxs.. I am not flying anymore?

 

[PurpleInMEM]

To withdraw is regreesive.... If the inflight emergency doesn't meant your expectations do you slide the seat back and say... this suxs.. I am not flying anymore?

Yup! Oh wait I forgot about agency shop. How convenient. So much for the American value of voting with your feet.

I think we all just need to realize that we have no control and that this job will continue to get worse and even less reliable; whether it's a result of union or management malfeasance.

Rez, I'm a consumer. I consume wages that my job gives me in exchange for services rendered and likewise I'm a consumer of union services in exchange for 2% of my salary. That's it. It's pretty simple really. I have no expectation that the union's constitutional monarchy will ever be more than a rubber stamp.

I agree with you that it WILL get worse, but I'm ready for it.

Someone else quoted the movie Office Space. How about this one; "I only need to do enough not to get fired." I figure I'll ride this into the ground, when it hits I will find another job. Kind of like corporate officers.

 

[SuperFLUF]

How long will the celebration last?

Will this party include fundraising to overturn the age 65 rule?

Or will they wait for a few months before that begins?

Next target age 67, 70 or no limit at all?

I guess its a good thing I don't mind sitting reserve..........

 

[PCL_128]

The pilots who end up doing the worst things to their fellow pilots all start out talking like Rez.

Rez has done more for his fellow pilots than probably anyone else on this board besides Occam. What is your vast resume of experience in assisting your fellow pilots? I agree with you about the Age-60 issue and Prater's backstabbing of the membership, but don't attack pilots like Rez that have worked so hard to improve the lives of their fellow pilots.

 

[airksk]

Rez has done more for his fellow pilots than probably anyone else on this board besides Occam. What is your vast resume of experience in assisting your fellow pilots? I agree with you about the Age-60 issue and Prater's backstabbing of the membership, but don't attack pilots like Rez that have worked so hard to improve the lives of their fellow pilots.

Sorry, but what has Rez done? What have I done? Do you even know who I am and what I've contributed? I don't care about anyone's past body of work, when they decide to work against the majority they become the problem. By the way, I'm really sick of people ragging on people who just pay dues but want their wishes carried out by their ALPA reps! It's not an insignificant amount of money, so I can really feel for those who desire results, not platitudes about volunteering.
I have my own important issues, and I'll attack who I need to to get them addressed, whatever their background.

 

[Falconjet]

Rez has, unfortunately, turned himself into a village idiot who nobody even listens to anymore.

Too bad, I used to enjoy some of his posts. Now, I can only ignore him. You might be surprised how easy it is and how much better you'll feel.

FJ