Age 65 on fast track

[luckytohaveajob]

My guess, is that any pilot on the seniority list (regardless of if they are a flight engineer, sim instructor, etc) the day this goes into effect can continue as a pilot until the age of 65.

Beetle007, since you will continue as a crew member past age 60 as a flight attendant will that make you eligible to take your left seat back if a change happens?

Have fun with the old hags in the back Beetle007. You should know them all well after working the last 30 years with them.

 

[Andy]

A S/O is a pilot at any other ALPA carrier that has them.

LOL! An S/O is NOT a pilot. If an S/O WERE a pilot, they would be bound to retire at age 60 as per 121.383c. DUH!!

It also appears that the Senators disagree with your view. Then how should the know? Could be that is the insight you get when you write the legislation in question!

I am not expressing a point of view; I am stating FACT. Read the freaking bill before commenting.
You posted a link to a letter that has nothing to do with the discussion of over 60 pilots returning to the cockpit. Read your links before posting.

 

[FoxHunter]

LOL! An S/O is NOT a pilot. If an S/O WERE a pilot, they would be bound to retire at age 60 as per 121.383c. DUH!!



I am not expressing a point of view; I am stating FACT. Read the freaking bill before commenting.
You posted a link to a letter that has nothing to do with the discussion of over 60 pilots returning to the cockpit. Read your links before posting.

FAR 121.383c has nothing to do with retirement.

The over S/Os have never left the cockpit. The Senators say it will be up to individual labor agreements. At FedEx all S/Os are on the active pilot seniority list. They all have the same rights, the guy with two years at age 35, or the guy with 30 years at age 61.

You are correct that the Bill in present form does not allow a pilot that has been removed from a list to return.

 

[ToThePain]

FAR 121.383c has nothing to do with retirement.

The over S/Os have never left the cockpit. The Senators say it will be up to individual labor agreements. At FedEx all S/Os are on the active pilot seniority list. They all have the same rights, the guy with two years at age 35, or the guy with 30 years at age 61.

You are correct that the Bill in present form does not allow a pilot that has been removed from a list to return.

Fox,
you may be right but that certainly does not seem the intent if you read this statement. "
(c) Applicability- The provisions of subsection (a) shall not provide a basis for a claim of seniority under any labor agreement in effect between a recognized bargaining unit for pilots and an air carrier engaged in operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, that is made by a person who was a pilot and who attained 60 years of age before the effective date described in subsection (e) and is seeking a position as a pilot with such air carrier following that person's termination or cessation of employment or promotion or transfer to another position with such air carrier pursuant to section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, as in effect on the day before the effective date described in subsection (e).

I would think that any Captain pushed out of his seat back to FO, any FO pushed out of his seat back to SO would certainly claim that this law "a) shall not provide a basis for a claim of seniority under any labor agreement in effect between a recognized bargaining unit for pilots". In other words they should not lose their positions because a "senior pilot" who is now a second officer does not have the right to push them out of their respective seats.l I would also think that being moved from Captain and SO would be considered "a transfer to another position with such air carrier".

 

[Andy]

FAR 121.383c has nothing to do with retirement.

Dude, are you for real? Here's 121.383c:

(c) No certificate holder may use the services of any person as a pilot on an airplane engaged in operations under this part if that person has reached his 60th birthday. No person may serve as a pilot on an airplane engaged in operations under this part if that person has reached his 60th birthday.

The over S/Os have never left the cockpit. The Senators say it will be up to individual labor agreements. At FedEx all S/Os are on the active pilot seniority list. They all have the same rights, the guy with two years at age 35, or the guy with 30 years at age 61.

You are correct that the Bill in present form does not allow a pilot that has been removed from a list to return.

Over 60 S/Os continue to remain employed because they are no longer employed as pilots. As per 121.383c. DUH!!

This is extremely clearcut; no former pilots over the age of 60 who are now S/Os, simulator instructors, flight attendants, baggage handlers, etc will be able to return to pilot status. Read the text of the bill; this is not complex legalese.
From section 706 of S 1300:

• (c) Applicability- The provisions of subsection (a) shall not provide a basis for a claim of seniority under any labor agreement in effect between a recognized bargaining unit for pilots and an air carrier engaged in operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, that is made by a person who was a pilot and who attained 60 years of age before the effective date described in subsection (e) and is seeking a position as a pilot with such air carrier following that person's termination or cessation of employment or promotion or transfer to another position with such air carrier pursuant to section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, as in effect on the day before the effective date described in subsection (e).

• 
  ​

 

[FoxHunter]

Dude, are you for real? Here's 121.383c:

(c) No certificate holder may use the services of any person as a pilot on an airplane engaged in operations under this part if that person has reached his 60th birthday. No person may serve as a pilot on an airplane engaged in operations under this part if that person has reached his 60th birthday.



Over 60 S/Os continue to remain employed because they are no longer employed as pilots. As per 121.383c. DUH!!

This is extremely clearcut; no former pilots over the age of 60 who are now S/Os, simulator instructors, flight attendants, baggage handlers, etc will be able to return to pilot status. Read the text of the bill; this is not complex legalese.
From section 706 of S 1300:

• (c) Applicability- The provisions of subsection (a) shall not provide a basis for a claim of seniority under any labor agreement in effect between a recognized bargaining unit for pilots and an air carrier engaged in operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, that is made by a person who was a pilot and who attained 60 years of age before the effective date described in subsection (e) and is seeking a position as a pilot with such air carrier following that person's termination or cessation of employment or promotion or transfer to another position with such air carrier pursuant to section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, as in effect on the day before the effective date described in subsection (e).

Read the Senators again.

 

[Andy]

Read the Senators again.

Wow! The Senators' letter has no weight in this matter; S 1300 is what will be put on the floor of the Senate to be voted on, not a letter signed by a few Senators.

Let me guess; you turn 60 later this year and are looking for a way to return back to a pilot seat after taking a flight engineer position if this isn't enacted before you reach 60. It's not going to happen. Deal with it. You're pi$$ing in the wind, just like Klako did last year.

This is very clearcut. This is not a gray area; there are no interpretations on my part. If you are unable to comprehend this, I shudder to think of the difficulties you must experience in your everyday life. The mere fact that you'd state that FAR 121.383c has nothing to do with retirement set off bells and whistles for me; your cognitive abilities appear to be in rapid decline. 121.383c is even cited in the text of the change.

Personally, I could give a rat's a$$ about flight engineers; United doesn't have them and they're not likely to return to United so this isn't even an issue for me. However, you're posting blatantly incorrect information. Please sit back and try to comprehend the text of section 706 of S 1300 and do some research on what the definition of a pilot is.

 

[FoxHunter]

Wow! The Senators' letter has no weight in this matter; S 1300 is what will be put on the floor of the Senate to be voted on, not a letter signed by a few Senators.

Let me guess; you turn 60 later this year and are looking for a way to return back to a pilot seat after taking a flight engineer position if this isn't enacted before you reach 60. It's not going to happen. Deal with it. You're pi$$ing in the wind, just like Klako did last year.

This is very clearcut. This is not a gray area; there are no interpretations on my part. If you are unable to comprehend this, I shudder to think of the difficulties you must experience in your everyday life. The mere fact that you'd state that FAR 121.383c has nothing to do with retirement set off bells and whistles for me; your cognitive abilities appear to be in rapid decline. 121.383c is even cited in the text of the change.

Personally, I could give a rat's a$$ about flight engineers; United doesn't have them and they're not likely to return to United so this isn't even an issue for me. However, you're posting blatantly incorrect information. Please sit back and try to comprehend the text of section 706 of S 1300 and do some research on what the definition of a pilot is.

I guess only time will tell. I recall you stating that age 65 was dead because the Democrats control the Congress now. Funny.:laugh:

 

[furloughed dude]

Looks like Foxhunter is going to be serving coffee for the rest of his career! Now that is funny!

 

[Dizel8]

FH needs to go enjoy life in retirement!