Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Age 60 rule

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
airbaker said:
If the rule gets changed, be prepared for much more intrusive and demanding physicals. It may prevent many to even make it to age 60. JMHO
Click to expand...

I don't know. My Grandmother was able to renew her driver's license by MAIL when she was pushing 80. Maybe ALPA will hook everyone up!
 
Why would anyone want to work past 60? C'mon people! Don't you want to enjoy some years off work before you kick the bucket? I would.
 
capt. megadeth said:
Why would anyone want to work past 60? C'mon people! Don't you want to enjoy some years off work before you kick the bucket? I would.
Click to expand...

These days there are plenty that have to work past 60, and most would just like to do it because they enjoy what they do. Your just far too young to understand so I'll just leave it at that.:)
 
yes, ALPA is excluding furloughed pilots from this survey. They have recently stated that they are now conducting an identical survey for the military leave members and the apprentice members. This is because many pilots indicated to ALPA that they are intentionally skewing the results. They won't let the furloughed guys participate because it is obvious that they would register answers against the age 60 change. make no mistake, ALPA wants this changed. why are we even discussing it after so many years against this change. It's about money, plain and simple.

By the way, this is a survey.........not a vote. Everyone, including furloughees should get a say in this issue which ALPA is going to offer a position on.
 
Andy Neill said:
To be more precise, it is to change it to the social security retirement age which is rising from 65 to 67 over a period of time.
Click to expand...

Anyone currently working as an airline pilot in the US was born in 1945 or later. The SS retirement age for those born in 1945 is 66. That retirement age applies to anyone who will be 51, or older, by the end of 2005. Nobody currently flying for US airlines would be forced to retire before age 66 if the currently proposed legislation becomes law.

Those who will be at least 45 by the end of this year have a SS retirement age of 67.

Those who fall inbetween, 46 - 52 by year's end, will have a SS retirement age of 66 years plus some number months. You can see the specific age on the chart on the following page: http://www.ssa.gov/retirechartred.htm

There is also separate legislation being proposed in Congress which would raise the SS retirement age even further, to age 68.
 
Andy Neill said:
To be more precise, it is to change it to the social security retirement age which is rising from 65 to 67 over a period of time.

"Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Administrator may not, solely by reason of a person's age, if such person has not attained the person's social security retirement age as defined in section 216(l) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 416(l))--"

If you look up that section it will show that the 67 limit won't be in effect until 2027.
Click to expand...

Section 416(l) refers to EARLY retirement age which is 62 regardless of when you were born. That doesn't change what we are both saying (the 67 limit won't be in effect until those born in 1960 and later reach 67) but just a point of accuracy.

LJ-ABX said:
Those who will be at least 45 by the end of this year have a SS retirement age of 67.
Click to expand...

I think you meant "Those who will be no MORE than 45 by the end of this year have a SS retirement age of 67." In other words, those born in 1960 or later.

Choice is a wonderful thing. I would like being able to choose to retire at 60 (or 58 for that matter) or to retire at 66 or any other age in between. I would like to be able to choose to put all my retirement eggs into SS or to have a Personal Retirement Account. Free agency is one of the most precious things we have if used wisely. This legislation gives us more opportunities to exercise our reasoning powers and to act on them.
 
FoxHunter said:
These days there are plenty that have to work past 60, and most would just like to do it because they enjoy what they do. Your just far too young to understand so I'll just leave it at that.:)
Click to expand...

Hey Holmes....
I may be young but I have been working 2 jobs for the past 7 years. I love flying, but I don't think I will be wanting to work until the day before I die. I also don't think we should be changing the age 60 rule because some people "enjoy working". :)
 
capt. megadeth said:
Hey Holmes....
I may be young but I have been working 2 jobs for the past 7 years. I love flying, but I don't think I will be wanting to work until the day before I die. I also don't think we should be changing the age 60 rule because some people "enjoy working". :)
Click to expand...

But it really does not matter what you think, the rule will change. BTW, you have to get the job first in order to get the chance to work until the day before you die.:)
 
Nobody knows for sure if the rule will change. Right now its speculation.
 
FoxHunter said:
But it really does not matter what you think, the rule will change. BTW, you have to get the job first in order to get the chance to work until the day before you die.:)
Click to expand...

Chief.....I have a job :)
 
Below is the respones rate. This does not look good for us anti-rule change folks!!!

The FAA Age 60 Rule Survey closed at 10 a.m. ET on Friday, April 29, 2005. The survey was open to every U.S. and Canadian member in good standing--including "Active" (AC), "Executive Active" (EA), and "Grievance Pending" (GP) members.
The top 10 pilot groups participating by percentage of response rate were:

Kitty Hawk - 58.39 percent
United - 51.05 percent
FedEx - 50.87 percent
America West - 49.38 percent
ASTAR - 47.49 percent
Alaska - 45.55 percent
Delta - 44.86 percent
Northwest - 44.64 percent
ATA - 44.36 percent
Continental - 42.70 percent​

​
 
Below is the respones rate. This does not look good for us anti-rule change folks!!!
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that. ALPA probably unknowingly did us a favor by making this an online poll. Half the old guys I fly with have a hard time checking their email or pulling weather. Some still refuse to do an online expense report favoring the 'good ole paper method'. Lets hope that the 50% are the computer savvy young' uns. Although I believe ALPA made up their mind on this before even announcing this poll.
 
Purpledog said:
Half the old guys I fly with have a hard time checking their email or pulling weather. Some still refuse to do an online expense report favoring the 'good ole paper method'. Lets hope that the 50% are the computer savvy young' uns.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the truth. Or my favorite, "Oh, I don't trust that FMS".
 
Fly, not program

However, the old guys can probably fly an airplane, as opposed to program it. True story, hired a glass cockpit/FMS pilot. Heck of a problem in the sim, when quizzed after his first session he stated "I have not hand flown an approach in three years while I was at ABC Air". Give me a pilot who has been single pilot flying a sewer tube, no AP, no FD, no nothing. That guy can fly just like the older pilots.
 
Last edited:
Purpledog said:
I'm not so sure about that. ALPA probably unknowingly did us a favor by making this an online poll. Half the old guys I fly with have a hard time checking their email or pulling weather. Some still refuse to do an online expense report favoring the 'good ole paper method'. Lets hope that the 50% are the computer savvy young' uns. Although I believe ALPA made up their mind on this before even announcing this poll.
Click to expand...

Hmm, from what has been reported over 50% of FedEx pilots are in favor of the change. If you are correct the percentage should have been much higher.:)
 
FoxHunter said:
Hmm, from what has been reported over 50% of FedEx pilots are in favor of the change. If you are correct the percentage should have been much higher.:)
Click to expand...


Where are you getting the data that over 50% of FedEx are for it. I see that just over 50% of Fedex filled out the survey, but how do you know how they responded.
 
I don't claim to be the smartest guy ever, so this might be full of holes. If it is, spare the flames. This whole age 60 debate bothered me, and I couldn't figure out exactly why. Until today. Here's the problem as I see it: Raising the age 60 rule will allow current captains more total time earning captain pay. But by doing so it will effectively stop others' upgrade to captain for that same time. So, it FORCES everyone not already a captiain to work until the new age limit in order to get the ORIGINAL number of years as a captain, while the current captains get extra years as captain. So you enable some guys now to work longer, yet by doing so you FORCE the rest of us to work longer! I know there are some unmentioned variables in this, such as the expansion/ contraction of airlines, new airlines, liquidation, early retirements, etc. I also realize that moving the retirement age enables everyone to work as pilots longer, but I think we all can agree that time as captain is more important that time earing FO wages. Thoughts? Am I on the money or out to lunch? Because I think I'll put these thoughts on paper to my congresspeople.
 
HarleyGuy said:
I don't claim to be the smartest guy ever, so this might be full of holes. If it is, spare the flames. This whole age 60 debate bothered me, and I couldn't figure out exactly why. Until today. Here's the problem as I see it: Raising the age 60 rule will allow current captains more total time earning captain pay. But by doing so it will effectively stop others' upgrade to captain for that same time. So, it FORCES everyone not already a captiain to work until the new age limit in order to get the ORIGINAL number of years as a captain, while the current captains get extra years as captain. So you enable some guys now to work longer, yet by doing so you FORCE the rest of us to work longer! I know there are some unmentioned variables in this, such as the expansion/ contraction of airlines, new airlines, liquidation, early retirements, etc. I also realize that moving the retirement age enables everyone to work as pilots longer, but I think we all can agree that time as captain is more important that time earing FO wages. Thoughts? Am I on the money or out to lunch? Because I think I'll put these thoughts on paper to my congresspeople.
Click to expand...


Very well said. It is all about a few getting to have their cake and eat it too.
 
Harley,

Your analysis is correct if you have zero growth which is occuring at many carriers, and everyone flies to mandatory retirement age. If the retirement age is raised 5 years will it take an extra 5 years to upgrade? No. There will always be early retirements either by choice or health matters. Growth always drives more upgrades than retirements. At SWA there have probably been 200-220 retirements in the last 4 years. In that 4 year span probably 500-700 upgrades. If your seeing furloughs, of course the reverse would be true.
 
ACAFool,

Speak for yourself. To many it is about right and wrong. Is it right to fire someone based on age so someone else can advance? Those who have advanced due to retirements prior to the rule change will benefit more than those yet to upgrade. Is that fair? No. But I do not believe it is enough reason to keep a bad rule that was based on little or no fact in place.
 
Chest Rockwell said:
Harley,

Your analysis is correct if you have zero growth which is occuring at many carriers, and everyone flies to mandatory retirement age. If the retirement age is raised 5 years will it take an extra 5 years to upgrade? No. There will always be early retirements either by choice or health matters. Growth always drives more upgrades than retirements. At SWA there have probably been 200-220 retirements in the last 4 years. In that 4 year span probably 500-700 upgrades. If your seeing furloughs, of course the reverse would be true.
Click to expand...

Chest Rockwell said:
ACAFool,

Speak for yourself. To many it is about right and wrong. Is it right to fire someone based on age so someone else can advance? Those who have advanced due to retirements prior to the rule change will benefit more than those yet to upgrade. Is that fair? No. But I do not believe it is enough reason to keep a bad rule that was based on little or no fact in place.
Click to expand...

Very interesting to read these old posts. I can understand better where this sort of perspective came from, and I hate it even more. Either didn't understand or didn't care about what junior pilots were about to endure. Unbelievable this sort of greed and self interest is what came to be normal. This is both the best job there is, and the worst profession there is, at the same time.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom