Age 60:Quit complaining--do something

[ABXbooger]

Write your senator...lets kill this thing

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

quit whining and write until you get a response

 

[luckytohaveajob]

I have just written my Senator opposing any change to age 60.

The most effective form is the hand written letter. Email and the phone calls are helpful but the hand written letter is the most respected by the staffers and legislators.

Make the letter as simple or complex as you want but just get your point across that age 60 must stand. A one line letter or a ten paragraph letter is just as important. Just see that you get it in the mail and written.

Also call your ALPA and SWAPA reps.

Sound off if you have written.

 

[pipe]

Wrote every single comittee member.

PIPE

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Wrote every single comittee member.

Don't have to write to my Senators...they didn't get sent home in the November elections and know how I feel on the issue. Both see things my way on the issue.

Now writing to the committee members....I hadn't thought of that. I'll get on it. However....you should know that in Washington, the elected folks now realize that this is no longer a health issue...the FAA Administrator has told them as much. They all realize that this is now nothing more than a political issue.

But if you are against the change, you should also indicate in your letter how the ICAO change is hurting this issue....but, on the flip side, as long as there are no headlines being generated by the recent ICAO age change.....it just solidifies the "pro-change" crowds arguements.

One thing you could do is to threaten to withhold or change your vote when re-election time comes around.....I've heard that healps sometimes.

Tejas

 

[swa737-700]

Wrote every single comittee member.

PIPE

How about this...move the retirement age to 65...but after age 60 Captians go back to the right seat...with all the "bennies" of the right seat and F/O pay. The good news is that Captians are still working and will be very senior... F/Os.
In addition, no one should get to work past 60 until all currently furloughed pilots get the recall notice. Let's not extend the furlough any longer than it already has been.
Fire away.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

How about this...move the retirement age to 65...but after age 60 Captians go back to the right seat...with all the "bennies" of the right seat and F/O pay. The good news is that Captians are still working and will be very senior... F/Os.
In addition, no one should get to work past 60 until all currently furloughed pilots get the recall notice. Let's not extend the furlough any longer than it already has been.
Fire away.

Your ideas are fine but what is the age 65 crowd been trying to do? They have considered the options your are expressing and instead want an overnight change of five years. How do you compromise with that kind of attitude and actions?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

How about this...move the retirement age to 65...but after age 60 Captians go back to the right seat...with all the "bennies" of the right seat and F/O pay. The good news is that Captians are still working and will be very senior... F/Os.
In addition, no one should get to work past 60 until all currently furloughed pilots get the recall notice. Let's not extend the furlough any longer than it already has been.
Fire away.

That is an item to be negotiated among the different airlines...seat position and/or pay should never be government mandated.

But, I'm all for whatever a given pilot group can negotiate with their own company.

Tejas

 

[pipe]

How about this...move the retirement age to 65...but after age 60 Captians go back to the right seat...with all the "bennies" of the right seat and F/O pay. The good news is that Captians are still working and will be very senior... F/Os.
In addition, no one should get to work past 60 until all currently furloughed pilots get the recall notice. Let's not extend the furlough any longer than it already has been.
Fire away.

I oppose the change in its entirety. Your proposition, however, is better than straight 65. At least the babysitter gets paid instead of the baby.

PIPE

 

[Fins Up]

I oppose the change in its entirety. Your proposition, however, is better than straight 65. At least the babysitter gets paid instead of the baby.

PIPE

Nice.

 

[MD80DRVR]

I just wrote mine asking them to make sure age 65 gets passed. Promoting age discrimination just so you can upgrade is B.S.

 

[Andy]

Write your senator...lets kill this thing

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

quit whining and write until you get a response

Targeted efforts will be more useful.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1216223#post1216223

 

[Andy]

The most effective form is the hand written letter. Email and the phone calls are helpful but the hand written letter is the most respected by the staffers and legislators.

Legislators will never see your correspondence. I've found that calling their office and talking to the staffer specializing in transportation and appropriations issues will yield positive results. However, I'd only recommend this tactic if you can speak on the topic with a great deal of depth. Staffers will quickly lose interest if you are not articulate.

 

[likeitis]

I just wrote mine asking them to make sure age 65 gets passed. Promoting age discrimination just so you can upgrade is B.S.

I'm sure you are are writing to your elected representatives about all age discrimination aren't you. Where is your outrage for age restrictions on driving, drinking, smoking, being president and voting. How about the mandatory retirements for police, firefighters, atc, etc. If you are not, then I assuming it is just your selfishness. Why don't we just let people get their pilots certificate at whatever age they can pass the test? That way some sharp people can add years to their careers without affecting the careers of everyone else. I'm sure you have copies of the letters you wrote to your representatives 30 years ago complaining about this travesty.

 

[Thedude]

I just wrote mine asking them to make sure age 65 gets passed. Promoting age discrimination just so you can upgrade is B.S.

So how is age 65 not age discrimination. Esp if the guy in the right seat has to be under 60. Hmmm???!!!

 

[Fins Up]

I just wrote mine asking them to make sure age 65 gets passed. Promoting age discrimination just so you can upgrade is B.S.

Fighting to change a system that suited you your entire career...until retirement is righ around the corner...is B.S. also.

 

[MD80DRVR]

I've got almost 30 years left my friend. I'd like an extra 5.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I'm in favor of allowing guys to fly until age 65 as long as they are mandated to retire their leather jackets at 60.

 

[boomlrd]

These clowns that want to work past 60, I got one word "ASSCLOWNS"!

 

[Phaedrus]

I've got almost 30 years left my friend. I'd like an extra 5.

These clowns that want to work past 60, I got one word "ASSCLOWNS"!

Interesting.

 

[calfo]

How about the mandatory retirements for police, firefighters, atc, etc.

Federal mandatory retirement age for law enforcement and firefighters is 57.

I'm dead set against age 65 - until I get into the left seat.

 

[Phaedrus]

An honest soul, how refreshing.

 

[Ty Webb]

I really don't care whether it passes or not, since it will have little effect on me- I don't plan to fly to 60, let alone afterwards, but you guys supporting the change are hypocritical cork smokers. You benefitted from the rule all these years, and now that it doesn't benefit you, you want to change it.

Your complete lack of moral principles make me want to hurl. The last thing any of us need is to have your unprincipled self-centered dust-farting carcass around here for another 5 years. . . .

.

 

[airfogey]

ALPA sold it's soul when they changed their stance on age 60 in 1980--no other union has institutionalized discrimination against their most senior and longest paying members.
Firefighters and cops may have a max age of 57 but they have government pensions( and government pensions are in trouble too.) The genie was let out of the bottle when the semi regulated utility outlook of the government changed with the deregualtion act of 1978. The genie has been let out of the bottle and won't be put back--the only thing passengers care about is the cheapest seat. On the other hand since deregualtion the overall size of the industry is much bigger than under regulation--in other words the industry is much bigger and more people are flying than if the industry had stayed regulated. Many of you who complain the most about raising the retirement age would never even have made it through the door into an airline job if it hadn't been for the growth of deregulation.
I'm sure that there will be lawsuits in the future if USA doesn't soon comply with the ICAO standard--after all as of Nov 23 pilots over 60 from other countries may fly in our airspace yet our government does not afford our citizens the same right.
Personally I didn't get my upgrade because someone retired-I got it because we got more airplanes. Do you people honestly think that every pilot over age 60 will opt to fly for 5 more years and that every upgrade will be delayed a like amount? You don't understand human behavior--everybody responds to incentives differently--you people probably think everything is a zero sum game--if I make more money than somebody else made less, the worst I've heard is maybe 18 months on average delay in upgrades--so those folks who's upgrade is delayed 18 months would still have 42 more months as a Captain than if age 60 stays the same.

 

[EWR_FO]

Personally I didn't get my upgrade because someone retired-I got it because we got more airplanes.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. You were only in a position to upgrade when "you got more airplanes" because you had been moving up the list due to retirements. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I'm sure you are are writing to your elected representatives about all age discrimination aren't you. Where is your outrage for age restrictions on driving, drinking, smoking, being president and voting. How about the mandatory retirements for police, firefighters, atc, etc. If you are not, then I assuming it is just your selfishness. Why don't we just let people get their pilots certificate at whatever age they can pass the test? That way some sharp people can add years to their careers without affecting the careers of everyone else. I'm sure you have copies of the letters you wrote to your representatives 30 years ago complaining about this travesty.

Tell ya what.....Let's get this one passed first...then we'll move on to the other ones....I promise you ( hee-hee)

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. You were only in a position to upgrade when "you got more airplanes" because you had been moving up the list due to retirements. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

At my former "Legacy" carrier, we had retirements, upon retirements, upon retirements for years....and a ton of pilots on furlough. Not only did those retirments not result in re-calls....but they also didn't result in a bunch of upgrades.

Since we had a "no furlough" clause in our contract, the company just conitnued to furlough....off the top.

Retirements don't always result in one "moving up the list"....cost control and a growth plan will....

Tejas

 

[EWR_FO]

At my former "Legacy" carrier, we had retirements, upon retirements, upon retirements for years....and a ton of pilots on furlough. Not only did those retirments not result in re-calls....but they also didn't result in a bunch of upgrades.

Since we had a "no furlough" clause in our contract, the company just conitnued to furlough....off the top.

Retirements don't always result in one "moving up the list"....cost control and a growth plan will....

Tejas

If you are talking about post-9/11, you are talking apples and oranges. If you had a "no furlough" clause, how did you have "a ton" of pilots on furlough?

 

[airfogey]

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. You were only in a position to upgrade when "you got more airplanes" because you had been moving up the list due to retirements. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

I got my upgrade cause we got more airplanes, I don't think we had a half dozen retirements in the first 10 years of the airline. If your working at a legacy that has been going backwards since 9-11 you have my condolences.

 

[EWR_FO]

I got my upgrade cause we got more airplanes, I don't think we had a half dozen retirements in the first 10 years of the airline. If your working at a legacy that has been going backwards since 9-11 you have my condolences.

My company is doing quite well, sorry to disappoint you. The fact is you moved up due to retirements no matter how you try to brush it aside, it's simple math really.