Age 60 PIC in Europe

[nwbusdrvr]

Anyone know what the latest rules are regarding Part 91 ops in Europe. We're looking at hiring someone who is over 60 and wondering whether he can act as PIC in UK and France.

Thanks

 

[nwbusdrvr]

Anybody?????

 

[ruhroa]

think the new icio (sp) standard is 65 took effect last month................i know for airlines and i think covers all.....we have over the last summer been faced with the italians and french enforcing the age 60 rule

 

[Spooky 2]

First of all I think the age 60 issue in France is limited to Part 135/121 Ops and not any Part 91. Have not been ramp checked in a couple of years over there and the age issue never came up anyway but take a look at the ICAO Annex 1 and see for yourself if this is not the case.

 

[Lead Sled]

First of all I think the age 60 issue in France is limited to Part 135/121 Ops and not any Part 91. Have not been ramp checked in a couple of years over there and the age issue never came up anyway but take a look at the ICAO Annex 1 and see for yourself if this is not the case.

That's my understanding as well. I think that you could ask this question to your handler, I'm sure they deal with it frequently and will most likely have the most current poop.

LS

 

[AA717driver]

Not an issue for Pt. 91. TC

 

[ruhroa]

and to be clear we were operating 135 come to think of it

 

[nwbusdrvr]

Thanks for the info. Looks like after reading Amendment 167 of Annex 1, which took effect Nov 23, they are refering to 121 and 135 only. So is it fair to assume there are no age restrictions for part. 91 PIC?

 

[gutshotdraw]

France is one of the few ICAO countries (like the U.S. , at least so far) that has not embraced the change to age 65. Enforcement applies only to "commercial" operations which, in the mind of most EU aviation authorities, includes Part 121, Part 135, and Part 91K.

That said, they don't appear to enforcing the limit. My company is a highly visible 135 and 91K operator with daily operations in and around Europe including France. Many of our Captains are fossils.....er, make that "of a mature age" above the French limit. And yet, I haven't heard of a single case of the French authorities ramp-checking one of our airplanes to enforce an age violation. It may be just luck but I tend to think it isn't a high priority for them.

 

[nwbusdrvr]

Thanks gutshot. That's exactly the info I was looking for before we get too wrapped up in hiring a guy 60+.

 

[gutshotdraw]

If you type all your pilots, it might be a good idea to cover your bases when you go to France by making sure at least one of the pilots is under 60 and, if possible, list him (or her) as PIC on the paperwork.

 

[Spooky 2]

If you type all your pilots, it might be a good idea to cover your bases when you go to France by making sure at least one of the pilots is under 60 and, if possible, list him (or her) as PIC on the paperwork.

Even the French can read. It's simply not a requirement unless you are a Part135/121 operator. This regulation is simply not applicable to Part 91. We operate in and out of France routinely with pilots over 60 as PIC and to date no one has benn challenged.

 

[gutshotdraw]

It is applicable to Part 91K because the EU considers fractional a "commercial" operation. Otherwise, you are correct that the rule doesn't appear to apply to traditional corporate operations.

Regardless, never underestimate a Frenchman's proclivity to try and stick it to an American even if the law says otherwise. Our company was recently fined a rather large sum of money because the passengers decided to do a bit of shopping during a tech stop in France and the government minions decided that violated the flight permits. This despite an earlier decision that this type of activity was not a violation. The lawyers will be fighting that one out. Leave it to the stupid frogs to try and penalize an operator that is trying to spend more money in their country. I doubt we'll be doing many more tech stops in France.

 

[Spooky 2]

It is applicable to Part 91K because the EU considers fractional a "commercial" operation. Otherwise, you are correct that the rule doesn't appear to apply to traditional corporate operations.

Regardless, never underestimate a Frenchman's proclivity to try and stick it to an American even if the law says otherwise. Our company was recently fined a rather large sum of money because the passengers decided to do a bit of shopping during a tech stop in France and the government minions decided that violated the flight permits. This despite an earlier decision that this type of activity was not a violation. The lawyers will be fighting that one out. Leave it to the stupid frogs to try and penalize an operator that is trying to spend more money in their country. I doubt we'll be doing many more tech stops in France.

All good points to ponder,

Thanks