AGE 60 passes Senate today..

[race#53]

AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
To permit pilots to serve in multicrew covered operations until attaining 65 years of age.

This is the same as them saying they will permit driving until 90 but you still have to get a license.
It's not a law until the FAA says so...and we know how fast they work!

Here is the actual senate wording, says effective 30 days after enacted but i don't see the system doing
anything in 30 days..should be interesting to see the mess it stirs up.

• SEC. 115. (a) IN GENERAL- A pilot who has attained 60 years of age may serve as a pilot of an aircraft operated by an air carrier engaged in operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, until attaining 65 years of age only if the pilot serves--

• • (1) as a required pilot in multi-crew aircraft operations; and

• • (2) with another pilot serving as a required pilot in such multi-crew aircraft operations who has not yet attained 60 years of age.

• (b) Sunset of Age-60 Rule-

• • (1) IN GENERAL- Section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations shall have no further force or effect.

• • (2) REGULATIONS- Not later than 30 days after paragraph (1) takes effect, the Secretary of Transportation shall take such action as may be necessary to implement paragraph (1) and to modify the regulations relating to pilot privileges by reason of age.

• (c) Applicability- The provisions of subsection (a) shall not provide a basis for a claim of seniority under any labor agreement in effect between a recognized bargaining unit for pilots and an air carrier engaged in operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, that is made by a person who was a pilot and who attained 60 years of age before this section takes effect and is seeking a position as a pilot with such air carrier following that person's termination or cessation of employment or promotion or transfer to another position with such air carrier pursuant to section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, as in effect on the day before the effective date of this section.

• (d) GAO Report After Modification of Age-60 Standard- Not later than 24 months after the effective date described in subsection (e), the Comptroller General of the United States shall report to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation and the House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure concerning the effect on aviation safety, if any, of the modification of the age standard contained in subsection (a).

• (e) Effective Date- This section shall take effect 30 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

 

[TheBaron]

I figured out what it would cost me at SWA where there is actual projected growth. The union sent us a worksheet based on expected retirements etc, and projected aircraft deliveries. That was before last month's announcement of reduced growth.

Anyway, having been hired at SWA at age 31, I will lose, yes, lose $400,000 because of the rule change. That's if I compare my earning when retiring at age 60 with and without the rule change. If I stay till age 65, (as I never planned to do) I will make the money back, i.e. another 400k. BUT, I will work 5 extra years to catch up money I should have earned. So f u all you age 65 guys!

So in 5 extra years at SWA, your saying you will only make $400k? That doesn't sound close to correct. Seems to me if you would lose $400k by retiring at age 60, then working 5 extra years at $220K+ per year would more than make up your shotfall.

 

[TheBaron]

Yet another good deed done by our Dave Webb. Between that and the LOA, I wonder if he'll get alot of Christmas cards...

You want to blame Dave for the LOA? How about blaming the 68% of the crewforce that voted for the P.O.S. I bet you still go out and drink with the "yes" voters on layovers.

 

[TheBaron]

True that brother. That whole "me" generation is just amazing. The better part of that story, probably the same guy, was telling me how the junior guys should thank the age 65 thing becuase it would allow us to work longer.

Thanks. Now I get to work five more years just to get what I would have had if this rule was not changed.

B@stards.

Welcome to the "me" generation. You are a member.
Where do you get the idea that you were owed some career and that some geezer is now taking what is yours. You are the exact same self-serving as the over-60 proponents. Stop fooling yourself.

 

[TheBaron]

• (c) Applicability- The provisions of subsection (a) shall not provide a basis for a claim of seniority under any labor agreement in effect between a recognized bargaining unit for pilots and an air carrier engaged in operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, that is made by a person who was a pilot and who attained 60 years of age before this section takes effect and is seeking a position as a pilot with such air carrier following that person's termination or cessation of employment or promotion or transfer to another position with such air carrier pursuant to section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, as in effect on the day before the effective date of this section.

Seems to me that a pilot who has transferred to another position (Flight Engineer) has no claim to seniority to return to a pilot position. FE's aren't pilots in the eyes of the FAA.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

This whole argument is actually stupid, since there's nothing ANYONE, or any organization, including ALPA , the FAA, or any airline group could do to stop it.

It is $.

Demographics show us that there will be less and less workers to support each retiree on gov't benefits (Soc Sec, Medicaire and Medicaide). To have any chance at all of keeping them solvent, the gov't has to have all of us work more years to help pay for the retiree benefits.

I would not be surprised if I was flying for a -121 carrier when I turn 65, if this age was still the limit then.

The European aviation agency set up an age 70 committee last year, as they're in the same boat we're in.

cliff
GRB

 

[BigMeat]

Those older guys are the ones who voted to relieve scope that added an x amount of years to our regional lifestyles, now they want age 65 to continue to make sure that we cant make up for it. Dirty old diaper smelling bad people. How long do you think you are going to be on the earth anyhow. Go home be with your kids and grandkids. See the world. Try something new! You dont have to do the bingo thing. You could sail around the world. Live in another country for a year (saves money). Join the peace corps. Show your wife how much you love her by not having to get up in the morning forcing her to make you breakfast. Enjoy what youth you have left! Here are some other ideas I have thought out for you guys:

1. Grow a beard (you couldnt before, now you can)

2. Smoke pot (alot of it)

3. Rebuild a 1949 classic that your daddy used to drive you to school in.

4. Teach your pet how to talk

5. Find other old people to hang out with (match.com)

6. Enjoy your travel benefits. Volunteer saving stray cats in Iraq.

7. Get that sex change you always wanted.

8. Best of all sleep the f### in every morning.

Its time to move on folks!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Age 65 is arbitrary! I demand the right to fly in the left seat 'til I'm...um....(does quick calculation)...70.235 years old!

Yeah...it's all about me, baby!

(sigh)

Luckily, the House bill ain't going anywhere. The controllers don't have a deal, and FAA is pushing hard for more spending.

Look for a Continuing Resolution to be passed later this month. It will extend funding with no riders.

 

[slinky]

Welcome to the "me" generation. You are a member.
Where do you get the idea that you were owed some career and that some geezer is now taking what is yours. You are the exact same self-serving as the over-60 proponents. Stop fooling yourself.

Whatever moron. I am not the one trying to change the rules during the game because I am loosing. Unlike those who "cannot retire" I plan my life and finances properly.

@ss clown.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

My last post came out wrong.

What I meant to say, was that I don't think the Age 65 rule will hold. The gov't will be too hard up to pay the huge retiree benefits, and I bet it will be moved to age 70, or 75, or just dropped alltogether.

I'm sure the retirement age, and possibly Medicaire, will be moved back even further.

cliff
YIP

Ron Paul in 2008!

 

[gangdev]

Seems to me that a pilot who has transferred to another position (Flight Engineer) has no claim to seniority to return to a pilot position. FE's aren't pilots in the eyes of the FAA.

Well let's say that theoretically, X cargo company retires all aircraft that require an FE. What would happen with all those guys over 60 (under 65) who are working the panel?

 

[skypine27]

You want to blame Dave for the LOA? How about blaming the 68% of the crewforce that voted for the P.O.S. I bet you still go out and drink with the "yes" voters on layovers.

No bro, I do not go out and drink with the 68%. I wont even look at them in the cockpit. I have custom, white bag tags with red letters that say 32% on my bags. It's pretty clear how I felt about the whole thing. (bought them from crewtags.com)

I think the union is more at fault than the pilot group here. Our pilot group is fairly easily led. (too many Sir Yes Sir! types here). So it's tough to blame them for doing what they were told, as many have been accustomed to doing their whole lives prior to FedEX. It's really the unions fault for telling people how to vote on the thing.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

... Enjoy what youth you have left! Here are some other ideas I have thought out for you guys:

1. Grow a beard (you couldnt before, now you can)

2. Smoke pot (alot of it)

3. Rebuild a 1949 classic that your daddy used to drive you to school in.

4. Teach your pet how to talk

5. Find other old people to hang out with (match.com)

6. Enjoy your travel benefits. Volunteer saving stray cats in Iraq.

7. Get that sex change you always wanted.

8. Best of all sleep the f### in every morning.

Its time to move on folks!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


BBB

 

[Andy Neill]

Here are the provisions in the most recent printed version of HR 3074 pertaining to pilot age. The highlighted areas lay out three areas that I had not seen in previous versions.
- The provision for a pilot under 60 needing to be on the deck is applicable only to international operations
- Medical standards are to be the same for under 60 pilots
- Line checks required within 6 months and every 6 months thereafter.
********************************
Sec. 44729. Age standards for pilots

• `(a) IN GENERAL- Subject to the limitation in subsection (c), a pilot may serve in multicrew covered operations until attaining 65 years of age.

• `(b) COVERED OPERATIONS DEFINED- In this section, the term `covered operations' means operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations.

• `(c) Limitation for International Flights-

• • `(1) APPLICABILITY OF ICAO STANDARD- A pilot who has attained 60 years of age may serve as pilot-in-command in covered operations between the United States and another country only if there is another pilot in the flight deck crew who has not yet attained 60 years of age.

• • `(2) SUNSET OF LIMITATION- Paragraph (1) shall cease to be effective on such date as the Convention on International Civil Aviation provides that a pilot who has attained 60 years of age may serve as pilot-in-command in international commercial operations without regard to whether there is another pilot in the flight deck crew who has not attained age 60.

• `(d) SUNSET OF AGE-60 RETIREMENT RULE- On and after the date of enactment of the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008, section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, shall cease to be effective.

• `(e) Applicability-

• • `(1) NONRETROACTIVITY- No person who has attained 60 years of age before the date of enactment of the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008 may serve as a pilot for an air carrier engaged in covered operations unless--

• • • `(A) such person is in the employment of that air carrier in such operations on such date of enactment as a required flight deck crew member; or

• • • `(B) such person is newly hired by an air carrier as a pilot on or after such date of enactment without credit for prior seniority or prior longevity for benefits or other terms related to length of service prior to the date of rehire under any labor agreement or employment policies of the air carrier.

• • `(2) PROTECTION FOR COMPLIANCE- An action taken in conformance with this section, taken in conformance with a regulation issued to carry out this section, or taken prior to the date of enactment of the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008 in conformance with section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations (as in effect before such date of enactment), may not serve as a basis for liability or relief in a proceeding, brought under any employment law or regulation, before any court or agency of the United States or of any State or locality.

• `(f) AMENDMENTS TO LABOR AGREEMENTS AND BENEFIT PLANS- Any amendment to a labor agreement or benefit plan of an air carrier that is required to conform with the requirements of this section or a regulation issued to carry out this section, and is applicable to pilots represented for collective bargaining, shall be made by agreement of the air carrier and the designated bargaining representative of the pilots of the air carrier.

• `(g) Medical Standards and Records-

• • `(1) MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS AND STANDARDS- Except as provided by paragraph (2), a person serving as a pilot for an air carrier engaged in covered operations shall not be subject to different medical standards, or different, greater, or more frequent medical examinations, on account of age unless the Secretary determines (based on data received or studies published after the date of enactment of the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008) that different medical standards, or different, greater, or more frequent medical examinations, are needed to ensure an adequate level of safety in flight.

• • `(2) DURATION OF FIRST-CLASS MEDICAL CERTIFICATE- No person who has attained 60 years of age may serve as a pilot of an air carrier engaged in covered operations unless the person has a first-class medical certificate. Such a certificate shall expire on the last day of the 6-month period following the date of examination shown on the certificate.

• `(h) Safety-

• • `(1) TRAINING- Each air carrier engaged in covered operations shall continue to use pilot training and qualification programs approved by the Federal Aviation Administration, with specific emphasis on initial and recurrent training and qualification of pilots who have attained 60 years of age, to ensure continued acceptable levels of pilot skill and judgment.

• • `(2) LINE EVALUATIONS- Not later than 6 months after the date of enactment of the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008, and every 6 months thereafter, an air carrier engaged in covered operations shall evaluate the performance of each pilot of the air carrier who has attained 60 years of age through a line check of such pilot. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, an air carrier shall not be required to conduct for a 6-month period a line check under this paragraph of a pilot serving as second-in-command if the pilot has undergone a regularly scheduled simulator evaluation during that period.

• • `(3) GAO REPORT- Not later than 24 months after the date of enactment of the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008, the Comptroller General shall submit to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate a report concerning the effect, if any, on aviation safety of the modification to pilot age standards made by subsection (a).'.

• (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The chapter analysis for chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

• • `Sec. 44729. Age standards for pilots'.

• SEC. 116. (a) Government Accountability Office Study on Flight Delays-

• • (1) IN GENERAL- The Comptroller General shall conduct a study on the efficacy of strategies employed by the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration and the Secretary of Transportation to address flight delays at airports in the United States.

• • (2) CONTENTS- The study required by paragraph (1) shall include an assessment of--

• • • (A) efforts by the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration to induce voluntary schedule reductions by air carriers at Chicago O'Hare International Airport;

• • • (B) the mandatory flight reduction operations instituted by the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration at LaGuardia Airport and Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport;

• • • (C) the New York/New Jersey/Philadelphia Metropolitan Airspace Redesign; and

• • • (D) any other significant efforts by the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration or the Secretary of Transportation to reduce flight delays at airports in the United States.

• (b) Report- Not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General shall submit to Congress a report including--

• • (1) the results of the study required by subsection (a); and

• • (2) recommendations regarding which of the strategies described in subsection (a) reduce airport delays most effectively when employed for periods of 6 months or less.

 

[Dizel8]

"`(A) such person is in the employment of that air carrier in such operations on such date of enactment as a required flight deck crew member; or"

Seems like this would cover the FE at FDX, DHL etc?