Age 60 informal poll

[Flybynite]

EXCELLENT, CHANGE IS COMING!! YOU CAN STAY PAST 60, until 80, but it will be in the right seat at starting wages! There, now you won't ******************** me anylonger. I didn't steal your retirement. NOR WILL LET ANYONE STEAL MINE!

Jocko, everything can't be about you. Everything is about me, me, me.

 

[Phaedrus]

Undaunted, false analogy. Try again.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undaunted, false analogy. Try again.

Do we need another Civil War to prove this or what?

I just want to take all you FI members to my 60 birthday party in HNL. It's going to be a big celebration. I love you all.

UndauntedFlyer

 

[Flopgut]

Undaunted: Are you UAL? You act like it.

A house divided? Well, how do you propose we UN divide the house? You're the expert, you love us all?! Do we un-divide it now so people can work to 65, and then be asked to UN divide it AGAIN so pilots like you can work to 68 or 70? UN-divide the house when UAL pilots ruined the careers of the original Frontier guys, or when UAL guys want to staple America West? You're all about DIVIDING the house! If we had never had the first guy like you, we would have never had the second! I tell you what, I'll go to your party if you agree to show at a party at the house of a furloughed pilots' family. Maybe a child's b-day or Christmas, we'll see how you like that celebration.

Problem might be seniority. I've spoke of changing the system previously and I don't want to go into that any further per say; But consider this: Undaunted, Klako, and the like, probably would not have the job they have now if we had rostering and assignments. Pilots/individuals who have ended up with the desparate position of needing to steal away another's time in this career wouldn't fare too well in a heads up "fight" for the job. Quality individuals take care of themselves and prepare, and aren't afraid to work. Weak ones are always weak and the first ones to beg something extra or steal something from another.

Give these guys five more years now, 90% of them will right back for more.

 

[Phaedrus]

Another Civil War? That is misdirection. Again, your cliche doesn't apply and your analogy was erroneous. We don't need a "Civil War", but we do need a little reason.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Pilots/individuals who have ended up with the desparate position of needing to steal away another's time in this career wouldn't fare too well in a heads up "fight" for the job.

That will come as news to the tens-of-thousands of pilots (most of whom were/are impeccably credentialed) who have seen their pensions wiped out by the bankruptcy of their parent carriers.

Weak ones are always weak and the first ones to beg something extra or steal something from another.

In order for something to be "stolen" from you, you must first OWN it. It must be in your possession. If you are now a Captain, you will still be one after they abolish the rule. I guarantee it!

If you are not now a Captain, you won't be one after they dump this rule, either. In which case, no harm, no foul.

Where in your contract, or for that matter, in your expectations for this job, did it say that at some specific point in your career you would be entitled to upgrade to Captain? When did that become your "right," and not merely an opportunity? What else have you done to insure that that would happen? Voted to allow smaller airplanes onto your ramp, thus requiring a need for more Captains? Have you lowered your wages, so your company could grow?

If "careers in aviation" came with horn buttons, you'd be blasting the $hit out of yours, I'll bet.

Quality individuals take care of themselves and prepare, and aren't afraid to work.

Now it makes sense. You're an airline manager, aren't you?

Which one? Lorenzo? Icahn? Wolfe? Maybe somebody in the management track at Mesaba? Come on, you can level with me. I won't tell anyone.

Yea, that's the problem with people these days. They're all low-quality individuals, unable to take care of themselves, unwilling to prepare, and too lazy to work. Especially Pilots...

 

[Phaedrus]

Where in your contract, or for that matter, in your expectations for this job, did it say that at some specific point in your career you would be entitled to

an extra five years in the left seat at the expense of those before you, those currently flying with you, and even those that come after you?
Talk about expectations...

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Isn't it strange how the discussion on this board has totally moved to promotions and expectations. Safety is no longer an issue because it was always BS. So now I'm just supposed to quit and give up my career because the F/O's call me greedy and other names. Is that really a reason do you think? I don't think so. Maybe if you had said please, but that won't work now, it's too late for sweet talk.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Andy is getting promoted

Andy is an officer and a gentlemen he tells me.

In fact he is getting promoted and I was invited to his pinning. I am honored but I can't make it because I have to work on the age-60 issue and then the next day it's off the the "salt mine" for another three days of "work."

Maybe Klako can go.

Congratulations Andy!

Andy:
It's LtCol USAFR as of 1 October. You're welcome to come to my pinning on ceremony at the Ft Belvoir Officer's Club on 27 Sep at 1500. I'll be having an open bar and hors d'euvres.

I invited Andy to my 60th in HNL but he says he can't make it either.

 

[Flopgut]

That will come as news to the tens-of-thousands of pilots (most of whom were/are impeccably credentialed) who have seen their pensions wiped out by the bankruptcy of their parent carriers.

In order for something to be "stolen" from you, you must first OWN it. Where in your contract, or for that matter, in your expectations for this job, did it say that at some specific point in your career you would be entitled to upgrade to Captain? When did that become your "right," and not merely an opportunity?

If "careers in aviation" came with horn buttons, you'd be blasting the $hit out of yours, I'll bet.

Now it makes sense. You're an airline manager, aren't you?

Which one? Lorenzo? Icahn? Wolfe? Maybe somebody in the management track at Mesaba? Come on, you can level with me. I won't tell anyone.

Yea, that's the problem with pilots these days. They're all low-quality individuals, unable to take care of themselves, unwilling to prepare, and too lazy to work. Especially for fast-food wages.

Whistler: If you want to see arrogant, entitlement in print just read your posts my friend. You won't read any "horntooting" in my posts...ask anybody. You're a mess pal.

There are NO career expectations past age 60 for airline captains in this business. ZERO! That is the basis for all remmuneration and QOL in the airline business; Decades of collective bargaining. Those were the terms of YOUR career progression, that's what I want for myself, and that's what I want to see passed on to others. If you want more years, outside the terms of a CBA, then you desire to become a replacement worker.

I've explained this to you before, I have experience in this. I am the son of an airline pilot who lost his job and had his pension taken at 50 years old. I know how hard it is from first hand experience. He had a plan, got the family earnings back on track and started a new career, which he later retired form as an exec. Of course it wasn't easy, but he did it. And since you and your ilk are convinced that your talents and abilities are so special, I'd like to see you tackle the same challenges he did! How's that sound bud? You're throwing down the "give me a tough checkride" crap on here like you got the whole game beat...Well, how about you go take those mad skills out for a spin and get a job? If you are half as good as you think you are you'll have no problem, right? Wrong. You can't do that. Easier to just beg some extra time in your current spot. You ARE too lazy to work and you ARE the problem!

BTW, I just got my upgrade. Somehow that has not changed my opinion on things.

Greater a chump is the person who wants 5 more years legislated to them, than the person who wants an existing retirement age to remain in place to sustain them. Seniority is the promise that the career will provide the best thing available when it's your turn. We all get a shot at it.