Age 60 informal poll

[CaptainMark]

PCL 128...i agree...pilotyip is lost in the stone ages...good luck to you

 

[level370]

ney...

 

[§kyye Candy]

I respectfully disagree...

do not lie down this family separation stuff, it comes with the job, everyone knows about it.

If you are going to use that logic regarding time away from home/base/family/whatever, then you have to also acknowledge that work rules, scheduling, scope and salary expectations were ENTIRELY different back in the day. Sure, we all expected travel away from home - but how many days/month? And for how much $$$? What was the payoff?

I am happy for my military friends who are able to transition to a career as civ. pilots while also bringing in a fair amount of $ in government income and pensions ~ hey, that's a great deal financially. But don't forget that not everyone has that option - it should be considered income and security in addition to your current compensation package, not as part of it. As much as I respect and admire the job that our military pilots have done, don't sell the civ. guys out - and I'm sure I don't have to explain the lifestyle and financial sacrifices of the average civ. pilot before they get to the majors, all with the promise (at one time, anyway) of financial security and lots of time off at the pinnacle of one's career success. THAT has always been a part of the deal, too!

A career as an airline pilot does not and should not include service in our military, and our compensation and benefits should reflect that.

 

[El Ocho]

Yes. Let freedom reign.

It would be interesting to know the age of voters. I think that would clearly divide the answerers into the yea or nay camp... which leads to the conclusion that inevitably most of the young nay voters will become older yea voters...

 

[pilotyip]

PCL and Capt someone if your luck holds out you to may enter the stone age.

 

[Larcifer]

I love the individuals that do it for the love of flying. "All I need is $100K a year to work a half a month, what a great job!" they say. There is a vast majority of us that probably will never see a 100k. 15 years, three furloughs and now working for an LLC that I have a better chance of getting furloughed from than upgrading is getting to be the norm. 12 out of the 15 in my class were all in similar situations. At least were gone alot. What a great way to take care of your family, I'm sure your passion puts food on the table. As long as pilots are willing to sell themselves on substandard pay (100k/yr) the pay will just keep going down.

That's all I've got to say about that.

 

[TheBaron]

Yes!!

 

[pilotyip]

larcifer, what is sub-stanard about $100K/yr, when it is above 95% of the income in the US?

 

[§kyye Candy]

If 100K is such a great paycheck, how come it isn't good enough for mgt?

 

[Clyde]

This is still a great career field, you can still reach the $100K figure without a college degree. $100K is in the upper 95% of US income. To be paid that much to do something you like is something few people ever get to experience. Fly because you like to.

Technically, although you may not need the degree, you still need the training required to accumulate your certificates and ratings.

Let's assume a person comes right out of high school and decides to go immediately into flight school. Let's also assume that this person must finance (borrow the money) the training on his own.

What does it cost to go from student all the way through MEI? It's been awhile since I've done it, but I am going to say approximately $30,000.00, plus whatever room and board expenses may have to be met. For simplicity, let's say $30K.

The kid is a real whiz, and completes all training in 12 months. So, first year out of high school, and here we have a fully-trained CFI/II/MEI with 300 hours and $30,000.00 in debt.

Let's look at a sample timeline. (I know, it not's exact)

2 years of flight instructing at $300.00/week. $15,600/yr
1 year of flying cancelled checks in a C-310. approx: $20,000.00

At year 3, our star-student either goes to a regional airline or a jet freight operator. Either way, we have an individual who has grossed $51,200.00 over 3 years. In addition to making installment payments on his loan, this person must also pay rent, groceries, car payment, insurance, and if he has a girlfriend - a credit card bill each month.

From day one of flight instructing to my first year making $100K, it took me 6 years. So let's say this individual is making $100K by year 6.

If the person is single and making $100K/yr, the take-home is probably around $60,000.00/yr. Depending on where he lives, this could be a good or a bad wage. If it's in a rural area, he can probably have a good living. If this person is based in Detroit, New York, Los Angeles, or most other major metropolitan areas, it is going to be tight if this person wants a decent house in a good area. (not prestige area, just a good one). Or, be a full-time renter.

Tack on a wife and even one child, it gets even tighter if this person is the only wage-earner in the house.

I would agree that one can make $100K/yr without a college education in this field, but I think they are more the exception and not the rule. Furthermore, $100K/yr in 2006 dollars isn't an extraordinary amount of money. I would say that it is probably the equivalent of $50 or $60K in the late 1980's.

 

[pilotyip]

but on one has answered how if $100K is in the upper 95% of US Income, how come it is so bad? I started this job at under $50K, bought a house, owned an airplane, and saved for my retirement.

 

[Hawker800]

Absolutely YES!

 

[CaptainMark]

but on one has answered how if $100K is in the upper 95% of US Income, how come it is so bad? I started this job at under $50K, bought a house, owned an airplane, and saved for my retirement.

sorry about the 50k..yikes...100grand is OK..but for an airline pilot it is weak...with the amount of training involved..education..and health concerns..an airline pilot or any pilot should make more than that..at least the captains..who are paid for their experience and decision making..remember..most times if you make one mistake..you get fired..then what? airline pilots are married to their companies via seniority and must live a certain lifestyle...with 2 checkrides a year..line checks..medicals...we should command greater salaries...doctors have hi incomes..and they don't get medicals or get checked every 6 months...would you want some 50,000 dollar a year doctor cracking your chest..i think not..just like i would want the best most qualified highest paid pilots hauling my family around...what is your problem with hi salaries for pilots...i guess you never had one so you want the same misfortune for everyone else...i haul boxes for FDX and i try to do it safe...efficient and on time..i have a lot of fun doing it and FDX pays me well to do it (with a great retirement i might add..afund..bfund..stock plan and 401k) and they make billions of dollars also..again sorry about the 50 grand

 

[§kyye Candy]

Let's get real

but on one has answered how if $100K is in the upper 95% of US Income, how come it is so bad? I started this job at under $50K, bought a house, owned an airplane, and saved for my retirement.

So... no wife/kids? Do you have any idea what it costs to raise kids these days? Or what the average university tuition per year is?

Do you live in a larger metropolitan area? Or must we be relegated to living in the middle of nowhere to have a decent QOL? Remember when there were COLAs for higher cost of living domiciles? Wasn't living anywhere we wanted (assuming you are up to the commute) supposed to be one of the perks? What if you are from SFO? If not, then add even MORE time away from family to the list of negatives.

For the sake of argument, assuming your stats are correct, aren't there certain jobs that should be above that 95% bracket? If so, which ones are they? Please... describe for me a profession that has more training requirements, more initial personal investment, more time away from home/family, more missed holidays and special events, more loss of income due to illness or health considerations, more currency requirements, more expenses, more sleep deprivation, etc. over the total life of a career... and LESS compensation???

And lastly, but definitely not least... why oh why, please tell me, is it fine for corporate America's CEOs to RAID the salaries, pensions and bennies of the employees who have built the companies they fleece, only so that they can then move along to the next victim? Do you really think it's a wise distribution of profit to rape the employees of what they rightfully earn, and have a new ultra-rich class at the top made up of board members and management?

Didn't anyone read about feudalism in history and why it was a poor model???

 

[Larcifer]

15 yrs of professional flying and I havn't seen 100K yet. My average earnings over that period have been less than 25K. Factor in a 100K education, 5 moves, 11 years on the bottom of 5 different senority lists, not to mention the first 4 yrs of my career, and I'm supposed to be happy with a 100K/yr. I've got 3 peers that have permantly lost there medicals in that same time frame and will never fly again. I knew all of the downside risks prior to beginning this journey but planned on being highly compensated someday to offset all of the risks and being away from home 15 days a month. The love was lost many years ago, it is a job. I love the job but hate the career.

NO, I don't want to have to fly and extra 5 years. I would retire tomorrow if I could, but that's just me

 

[pilotyip]

Hey when you are an unemployed airline pilot at age 53 and $50K is the only job offered you take it. You bust your butt for your employer and hopefully he recognizes your talents and gives you regular raises. What other options are there?

 

[CaptainMark]

hey...i'm glad for you..really! but let's not run around these boards saying that 100k is too much money...these managers are making 5 times that to sit in an office...and who is checking them every 6 months...just imagine the chaos that would entail if all pilots in this country took the day off...i think we are worth a lot for our skills...and i think deep down u do too..

 

[pilotyip]

Capt Mark, never said 100K is too much, never said people should not make more than 100K, I have just said I have never made more and I feel I have had a dcent life, own a few toys, and have decent retirement. Some people are lucky and break into the places than can pay numbers above 100K, good for them. BTW just imagine the chaos that would entail if all managers in this country took a few months off, no pay, no current manuals , no QC, no nothing, pilots would not be flying. Of course unless they wanted to come in their free time and run the place.

 

[§kyye Candy]

What QC?!

just imagine the chaos that would entail if all managers in this country took a few months off, no pay, no current manuals , no QC, no nothing, pilots would not be flying. Of course unless they wanted to come in their free time and run the place.

Great Lakes does their own Jepp updates, no QC... pilots do most everything. Not sure about current mgt., but in the past, the CP did squat... It's the great American dream ~ that the majors would love to have (and probably are on their way to.)

Most CEO types do NOT do enough work to justify their paychecks & bonuses by far ~ they just skew the earnings statement for the board members to keep their jobs.

 

[pilotyip]

skye candy are you telling us the airline could run without the FAA mandated part 119 management?