Again, USAir is still looking for that next merger.......

[ackattacker]

That would be a path out of the quagmire that is us air's current SLI. APA would become the agent for the combined pilot group, acccept Nic, and negotiate from there, hopefully with an industry leading contract.

I *really* don't have a side in this. However I feel that as time goes by it becomes less and less likely that any new integration/arbitration process would use the Nic from 2007. They might end up with something that resembles the Nic, but they wouldn't call it that if only because the word is so emotionally charged. Also, now that most everybody has been recalled it becomes more difficult to justify stapling xx numbers of pilots onto the bottom simply because they happened to be on furlough in 2005. Keep in mind that AA has a lot of pilots on furlough right now and would likely be unsympathetic to such a system, not to mention the bitter memories of the TWA acquisition.

 

[Saabslime]

Was your friend tasked to crunch the numbers when USAir and United or Delta were in talks?

He says United yes but Delta no. Who knows what it means if anything......just passing along the speculative info.

 

[reepicheep]

Meanwhile, back on planet earth....

 

[Fubijaakr]

If I were an AA pilot I would through the nic out in a heartbeat and start over.

Except you couldn't. The award is the final, binding arbitration no matter what the pickleballers think. All they're doing is delaying it with continued legal challenges. At the end of the day, Nic will stand. The Nic list will be the basis of the subsequent AA/LCC SLI negotiations.

Problem is, like it or not, is the the West pilots seem to want instant reward.

Not really. All they want is implementation of the final, binding arbitration award that both sides agreed to honor in the first place.

 

[Crzipilot]

As the 9th said, USAPA is free to negotiate any seniority list they desire.......And not until such a list is implemented can the west sue for DFR.

Sooooo.....accept our list, get a contract, then you can file your DFRII.

Role the dice, throw another 2.5 million out there. How much is ALPA going to reimburse AOL the 2nd time around?

 

[On Your Six]

As the 9th said, USAPA is free to negotiate any seniority list they desire.......And not until such a list is implemented can the west sue for DFR.

Sooooo.....accept our list, get a contract, then you can file your DFRII.

Role the dice, throw another 2.5 million out there. How much is ALPA going to reimburse AOL the 2nd time around?

The West guys are paid more than the East per hour on the same aircraft, so the East guys can just make less and pout. If a merger with AA does happen, then USAPA will be voted out by a sudden majority, and Nic will stand. Then, arbitration will happen again for the new USAir and AA combo. Then Dogs will kiss Cats, and peace on Earth will be achieved. AMEN.


OYS

 

[HA25]

I got a better plan....

JetBlue/USAir/Alaska... why does everyone think it always has to be a merger of two?

That would make for 4 major airlines and we're back to pre-deregulation all over again..

 

[Metrojet]

I got a better plan....

JetBlue/USAir/Alaska... why does everyone think it always has to be a merger of two?

That would make for 4 major airlines and we're back to pre-deregulation all over again..

The rumor is PHX hub going to Jetblue

 

[Bringupthebird]

If AA came into the picture Philly would be abandoned like,... well like the rest of Philly!

 

[reepicheep]

CLT's the one living on borrowed time....

 

[OurMoney1]

Meanwhile back on planet earth......

 

[Lampshade]

As the 9th said, USAPA is free to negotiate any seniority list they desire.......And not until such a list is implemented can the west sue for DFR.

Sooooo.....accept our list, get a contract, then you can file your DFRII.

Role the dice, throw another 2.5 million out there. How much is ALPA going to reimburse AOL the 2nd time around?

Acceptance of "your" list will come with a passage of a new contract correct? You are in the MAJORITY! Why don't you just get a contract out to the pilots and vote it in? I mean it's been 3 years you would think we would be close to a vote soon right? I guess you guys are a little worried about getting sued back to the the stoneage from where you came.

 

[formerdal]

Whats up with the snapback grievance, about a year now. The question is who's paying to keep the results from being released...

 

[waveflyer]

Ahh... One of the few ways to achieve financial independence in aviation: go to law school and convince silly pilots they have a case...

 

[Crzipilot]

As soon as you get management to agree to something better than the kirby...there ya go. A TA will be out.

Don't see that happening anytime soon. You low ballers though would be happy with the kirby???

think a little more of yourselves, please... Oh that's right, you guys are riding the highest contract you've ever had, while the rest of us are fighting to get out of the lowest we've ever had.....

 

[Bringupthebird]

You used to have a Collective Bargaining Agent with a proven record of negotiating improved contracts. The amatures you have now?, Not so much.

Quit the infighting and you'll have a fighting chance. Hey, that sounds like a great sticker! Or lanyard, or nightlight, or decorative throw pillow (get Parella on that), or...

 

[Lampshade]

As soon as you get management to agree to something better than the kirby...there ya go. A TA will be out.

Don't see that happening anytime soon. You low ballers though would be happy with the kirby???

think a little more of yourselves, please... Oh that's right, you guys are riding the highest contract you've ever had, while the rest of us are fighting to get out of the lowest we've ever had.....

USAPA hasn't even asked for more than the Kirby yet!!! LOL Why don't you update us on how many open sections there are? What is the pay proposal that Usapa has put forward? 3 years man, 3 years! LOL

Which is it btw "Sooooo.....accept our list, get a contract..." or "As soon as you get management to agree to something better than the kirby..." Which is the way to a contract I'm confused? I think you are too...:laugh:

 

[BuddyF]

You used to have a Collective Bargaining Agent with a proven record of negotiating improved contracts. The amatures you have now?, Not so much.

Uhhh What? You do realize ALPA was the CBA that got us this contract, and gave away our pension and scope and .....

 

[Bringupthebird]

No, the pilots of US continued to deny reality right up to the point where they were about to have their contract handed to a bankruptcy judge who would have made LOA93 look like Mega Millions by comparison. Your options significantly decrease when you overplay your hand to the point of career implosion ("full pay till the last day!").

During good times, ALPA has continued to secure improved contracts. During bad times, wait , USAPA is the only union that prefers to try and negotiate during bad times and wastes it's time with phony press releases and Kabuki theatre during the good ones.

Remember, every dollar you've gotten during you US career has come through ALPA negotiations. USAPA has produced exactly NOTHING.

While you can debate whether ALPA would be the preferred replacement to USAPA, there is nothing that can replace unity for effectiveness. And unity is to USAPA like light is to a cockroach.

 

[eaglesview]

Which is it btw "Sooooo.....accept our list, get a contract..." or "As soon as you get management to agree to something better than the kirby..." Which is the way to a contract I'm confused? I think you are too...:laugh:

Reads......let us jump ahead per the nic and get a pay raise on top of that.!!!!

The west needs to understand two things. This is business. Business can be nasty unfair and if you have paid attention to what has happened to our country with the economic crisis you know it can also be unethical. So aside from "because they promised they would per the arbitration" why would any East pilot. including new hires if it stays seperate, agree to putting that list together and forfitting their upgrade??? No contract will give them a bigger raise than the upgrade.

Both sides of this standoff have their heels dug in and it's just silly. The East pilots are so old even if they got DOH the West would move up the list very quickly through attrition. In the mean time other airlines who are negotiating contracts have to deal with the contract in place at USAir as a comparible. I hope the East gets their LOA 93 or what ever is in the courts regarding pay.

 

[cactusboy53]

As the 9th said, USAPA is free to negotiate any seniority list they desire.......And not until such a list is implemented can the west sue for DFR.

Sooooo.....accept our list, get a contract, then you can file your DFRII.

Role the dice, throw another 2.5 million out there. How much is ALPA going to reimburse AOL the 2nd time around?

First of all you should really quote the 9th in its entirety: "We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA."

So both the District Court and the 9th agree USAPA is AS FREE to abandon the Nicolau Award. TRANSLATION: ALPA was not nor could it EVER abandon the Nicolau Award. ALPA looked at the award as per AAA MEC's request, and found no malfeasance or reason to vacate the final and binding result.

Next: All USAPA (the King of Unions) simply needs to do is finish the 25+ remaining OPEN sections of the contract, and put that puppy up for a vote. We don't have to "accept our list" at all. USAPA's stance is that it's (section 22) a DONE DEAL.

That is fantastic. Finish up the negotiations with the company and put it to membership vote. We're all anxiously awaiting.

With regard to DFR II, we are well on our way to having that funded. Every time Cleary open's his pie hole, contributions SPIKE in a very serious way. Oh, ALPA's money is as good as anyone's ......