Aerobatic Instruction and Parachutes...

[FN FAL]

Should people who use parachutes as required equipment in aircraft be required to make at least one parachute jump as a means of qualification?

I think I would feel pretty intimidated about using a parachute, if I never had any experience using one.

I met a chick RIO that was a civilian sport skydiver. She said some friends of hers bought it flying the turbo weenie in naval flight training down in Florida. I remember reading about the incident in the news and what amazed me was the fact that the instructor rode the plane in and the student was seen perched up on the seat with hands on the airframe as if they were frozen to the plane. Almost as if they couldn't bring themselves to bail out. I believe the reason they crashed was because of a midair with a Buckeye.

The RIO confirmed the story and believed that the female student was intimidated about using the parachute and basically died standing on her aircraft seat clutching the aircraft.

Any of you pilots out there flying jump planes or instructing aerobatics confident about your parachute and the use of it?

NTSB Identification: MIA92LA128 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 46636.
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, May 31, 1992 in COCOA BEACH, FL
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/30/1993
Aircraft: CESSNA A150L, registration: N106DM
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
FLIGHT WAS CONDUCTED AS INSTRUCTIONAL FLIGHT FOR THE PURPOSE OF AEROBATIC TRAINING. WITNESSES REPORTED SEEING THE AIRCRAFT 4 MILES OFF SHORE AT APPROXIMATELY 500 FEET IN AN APPROXIMATE 45 DEGREE NOSE DOWN ATTITUDE DIVING TOWARD THE WATER. THE AIRCRAFT WAS DESCENDING AT HIGH SPEED AND WAS NOT SPINNING. THE UPPER SURFACES OF THE WINGS WERE VISIBLE. ONE WITNESS REPORTED SEEING SOMETHING SIMILAR TO A BANNER STREAMING BEHIND THE AIRCRAFT. THREE OTHER WITNESSES DID NOT SEE THIS. THE AIRCRAFT IMPACTED THE WATER IN THIS ATTITUDE. THE AIRCRAFT WRECKAGE WAS NOT LOCATED OR RECOVERED. THE BODY OF THE FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR WAS FOUND NORTH OF THE CRASH SITE ON JUNE 3, 1992 AND THE BODY OF THE STUDENT WAS FOUND APPROXIMATELY 75 MILES NORTH ON JUNE 7, 1992. THE INSTRUCTORS PARACHUTE HAD NOT BEEN DEPLOYED WHEN THE BODY WAS FOUND. THE STUDENTS PARACHUTE WAS FOUND DEPLOYED. THE STUDENT HAD SUSTAINED MULTIPLE BLUNT TRAUMATIC INJURIES CONSISTENT WITH HAVING BEEN IN THE AIRCRAFT DURING WATER IMPACT ACCORDING TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

DESCENT INTO THE OCEAN FOR UNDETERMINED REASONS

 

[EagleRJ]

Learning the egress checklist and committing it to memory is one of the first tasks in any aerobatics course. I still remember it for the Super Decathalon: RING- PULL- THROW- TWIST- GO- CROSS ARMS- THREE SECONDS- PULL RIPCORD- CHECK RISERS- FLARE TO LAND.

Understanding what to do is just as important as bringing yourself to do it in an emergency situation. You're right that someone may be reluctant to jump if it is their first time, even if the aircraft is unrecoverable and ground contact is imminent. It would be prudent to practice at least some ground egress drills with an old mattress to build some muscle memory for the day it's needed.
This is a life-or-death issue for the instructor too. In the 8KCAB and many other aerobatic aircraft, if the student freezes or has a problem getting out, they will be blocking the door for the instructor too.

In that NTSB report, it sounds like the student deployed their chute inside the aircraft. One cause could have been a lack of egress training from their instructor. I've heard of a lot of acro students being strapped into a parachute, with the instructions "if we have to bail out, just jump and pull the ripcord" from their instructor. Nowhere near enough information!

 

[wmuflyguy]

I got some areobatic/upset training in E300. The egress training was maybe 10 minutes long. It was somthing like Headset-Hips(to take off teh harness)-Handle-step and jump.

I highly doubt that in the event of an emergency, that a student would make it out(or the instructor for that matter). If they did, they would most likely be severley injured on landing in teh parachute, since very few had any knowledge of how to use or flare one(myself included).

 

[FN FAL]

I have been searching for over two hours for anything regarding this Navy Turbo weenie accident...the one the skydiver chick Navy R.I.O. was telling me about.

My memory is vauge on this crash, but some more of it is coming to me. I think what the news and this R.I.O. had said was that the instructor went down standing on his seat gripping the fuselage and that the student had taken out a piece of the empenage with her canopy, by opening her chute while still in the plane.

There were witnesses on the beach that saw the crash...civilians.

It would have happened prior to 1998-99.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Should people who use parachutes as required equipment in aircraft be required to make at least one parachute jump as a means of qualification?

I'm not a big fan of regulations like that, but I think it is a good idea for anyone who may have the need to use a parachute to have jumped at least once. By saying jumped at least once, I mean the old traditional style of learning, not this fake way where you are strapped to another person and jump out of an airplane like all the tourists ( and ex-presidents do ). Mind you, it is a lot easier to step out on the strut of a C-182 flying straight and level at 80 knots than it would be to fight your way out of an 8KCAB that just had a spar failure and is spinning in.


TP

 

[atrdriver]

If they did, they would most likely be severley injured on landing in teh parachute, since very few had any knowledge of how to use or flare one(myself included).

However, better injured in the landing than squashed with the airplane. My egress training was about 15 minutes, including learning how to make sure the chute was legal, and I feel pretty certain I could have gotten out had it been required.

 

[typhoonpilot]

However, better injured in the landing than squashed with the airplane. My egress training was about 15 minutes, including learning how to make sure the chute was legal, and I feel pretty certain I could have gotten out had it been required.

But, have you jumped ? I agree with FN FAL, if you are wearing a parachute it is a good idea to have actually jumped a few times. Doing a few actual jumps will raise your level of confidence in using a chute and, god forbid, if you ever have to use it you will be better able to.

TP

 

[wmuflyguy]

However, better injured in the landing than squashed with the airplane. My egress training was about 15 minutes, including learning how to make sure the chute was legal, and I feel pretty certain I could have gotten out had it been required.

I didnt say it wasnt a better alternative. I also stated severly injured(as in paralyzed, coma, brain damage(most don't wear helmets).

Jumping from an out of control aircraft is alot harder than i think alot of people expect and dont respect the fact that the parachute won't save you unless you can get out and clear of the aircraft(which could be tumbling in every axis at once).

 

[FN FAL]

But, have you jumped ? I agree with FN FAL, if you are wearing a parachute it is a good idea to have actually jumped a few times. Doing a few actual jumps will raise your level of confidence in using a chute and, god forbid, if you ever have to use it you will be better able to.

TP

true...I think it would be tragic that someone would die "riding it in" in a doomed aircraft, just because they were frozen with fear over the parachute.

The sad part is, most emergency parachutes are round and most skydiving instruction (or parachute instruction) is with ram air squares.

It's not the same thing. I had a round reserve ride and it was a trip! Thank gawd it was evening and the wind was not bad. I had it out high enough to get my wits about me and take time to think about doing a proper PLF (Parachute Landing Fall).

Believe me...it's just masturbation (the PLF). You don't fall when you land a round, you get compressed into your freeking shoes. You get compressed so far into your shoes, you actually get to meet the Chinaman that made them suckers. But don't worry, the vist is short lived, because just like a spring, you gonna get sprung right back to your own time zone pretty quick.

Obviously, a good PLF is going to prevent injury, but you are going to get sprung. Thank goodness I don't have jump those for a sport...my chiropractor would be buying a new car off my visits.

 

[FN FAL]

Hey...found this one today during my sojourn to find data on the T-34 Mentor incident...

http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/amazing.html

It contains weird accident synopsis on things like the flight attendant that survived the inflight break up of an airliner by riding a piece of the plane down...etc etc etc. Really fast and interesting reading...

 

[FN FAL]

Also an interesting find...B-36 Bailout!

http://users.sdccu.net/dmaxion/B-36crash.html

Imagine gasoline, big radial engines, three inch diameter fuel lines, lots of mechanical structure, huge proportions all around. The author said he could hear pieces of the plane descending and explosions while he was under canopy.

Two did not survive...but the rest of the crew did, thanks to bailout!

You guys should see the amount of crap that's in my search file...every day. I think in a year, I'll have looked at every web site on the internet. What a geek I am. Muhahahah!