Aerial Advertising

[c172]

Has anyone done this and what can you say about ?

 

[ThomasR]

Air Ads

Has anyone done this and what can you say about ?

I looked into it a couple years back in Florida. They are willing to get you current in the aircraft if neccessary. But they charge way to much for me to justify the transition from a tri gear to a tail dragger. If you are already current in the aircraft they use it pays about $15 to $20 an hour. They also advertise out of season jobs in other states if you are willing to travel to points unknown. There is also a high employee turn rate which makes for some "come and go" type attitudes.

////////////// IN THE JOB MARKET /////////////

 

[c172]

Florida would be nice but.

But I need somethig up here in the north (NJ MD CT ) I would love to work in florida but the famly thing.Is holding me back for right now

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

you have 2 companies at Allaire, 1 Lakewood, and some down south NJ ... Allaire is a big banner place though - used to work there one summer...

 

[c172]

ANYONE HAVE THE WEBSIT ADDRESS OF THE TWO companies THAT FLY BANNERS OUT ALLAIR ???? SORRY FOR YELLING

 

[Super_Cub_2414P]

http://www.aerialsign.com/ had about 15 Super Cubs flying from Memorial Day through Labor Day at Allaire when I worked for them a few years ago, a great company to work for and you can make pretty good money flying for them, it was $25. and hour when I left.

 

[momalley81]

Aerial Signs is out of Lakewood, NJ now. United Aerial Advertising is the only company left towing out of Allaire. In south Jersey you have High Exposure and Shoreline towing out of Somers Point, and Paramount in Green Creek. Most of them want at least some tailwheel experience, though High Exposure does have a few tricyle geared planes.


Any more info, I'd be glad to help; I was out there for the past 3 seasons.

 

[c172]

thank for all who reply now i need contacts

 

[c172]

yes

yes i"M LOOKING FOR a job

 

[c172]

Yes

I need a new job bad And I mean badddddd

 

[be76pilot]

Hey, I need a job too!

 

[ThomasR]

Job?

Did someone say job? Oh, you are LOOKING for a job. Well, you came to the right forum, most people here are in the market. All others are too busy working to take any interest in posting. Good luck, let us know what you find, if you have the time.

 

[RipCurl]

This thread got me looking into banner towing (something I had not considered before). How does this business work? I have found many companies that say they are based in one part of the country, but provide services to lots of far away regions. Do they just fly to wherever the contract is, set up camp, and start towing, or do they have "branches" all over the place? I'd like to live near Chicago this summer... is there a comprehensive list of banner operators out there that I could look through?

 

[c172]

Thats why we are here

To get the most info we can

 

[momalley81]

This thread got me looking into banner towing (something I had not considered before). How does this business work? I have found many companies that say they are based in one part of the country, but provide services to lots of far away regions. Do they just fly to wherever the contract is, set up camp, and start towing, or do they have "branches" all over the place? I'd like to live near Chicago this summer... is there a comprehensive list of banner operators out there that I could look through?

Depends. Some companies travel; they'll send a couple of planes and pilots out with a bunch of equipment and set up base for a major sporting event, or even set them up for the season. Many others will just get the contract, then farm the job out to a subcontractor. You're going to find the busiest places for towing are areas where there are large congregations of people; beaches work well because you can get low over the water; Florida, the Carolinas, Ocean City, MD, the Jersey Shore, CT, and Long Island are some of the areas where I know it's busy, the east coast is somewhat better, because people aren't squinting into the afternoon sun as well.

There used to be a website with a list of most aerial advertising companies, but I managed to lose the link, sorry. It should turn up on a google search though.

 

[RipCurl]

Man I looked and I looked and I looked. Seems like most companies are either on the Jersey Shore or in Florida. I did find one company in Chicago, Ad Airlines. I sent a message to them via email; I'm awaiting their reply. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. Does anybody know any other companies around here? Do I even have a chance at getting hired with ~280 hours and a Comm-Multi-Inst (and a H/P endorsement)?

 

[Bryan D]

Take a look at Sky-Signs, Myrtle Beach SC http://www.sky-signs.net/. They are a good honest outfit with good equipment and those two things are very important in this line of work. The season just ending but it will start up again in March. It's best to begin your training in Feburary and then your ready by March. The training consists of a tailwheel endorsement, banner pick up/drop, emergency procedures and route familiarization amoung other things. This is done in a Piper Super Cub PA18-160 (about 900 lbs empty) with a SuperBorer prop. Basically, you'll need 350 hrs PIC and CSEL certification. The training is 50 hrs, so if you have 300 hrs. now you will be good to go.

There is a certain amount of risk involved, alot of it depends on pilot. Your flying at MCA 90% of the time with a big ol' drag inducer behind you. It can be hard work when the wind is blowing say...18-25 mph crosswind, worse when gusting and over a ten story building (your at 500' agl).

The pick up and drop are the most interesting, you have your grappling hook on a 20-23 ft. rope attatched to the hitch mounted just above the tailwheel and for takeoff you hang this hook on the ledge of the door on the right and tie any slack rope around the wing strut using a slip knot. After you get airborn you toss your hook out and pull the slip knot and then you yaw the airplane to make sure the hook/tow rope are'nt tangled. If everything is AoK you trim for about 45-55 mph (yes, the airspeed indicator is mph) hands off level flight, 300' agl downwind and set one notch of flaps. At a point that you feel comfortable with turn base and then final, upon turning final descend to 250' agl and yaw (side slip) into the wind while maintaining a ground track consistant with the two poles (as viewed thru the lower corner of the windshield) that hold your banners lead rope. It takes >alot< of rudder. At a point ~45° horizontal from your poles pull the power to idle and pitch down at ~45°, your aiming point is 15' in front of the poles, make that point your primary focus, at about 60' agl add full power and push the stick forward some more to keep the nose from rising and at ~25' pull up to about 45° and listen for "you got it" on the radio. In any case you push the nose over at 250', if you have the banner you'll feel a slight tug depending on the size of the banner, if you don't have the banner you come back around and try again. The objective is to swing your hook between two poles that are 8' tall and 10' apart. The banner lead rope is 250' long with a loop that is strung between these poles. When everything is done correctly the airplane is above the banner and at the slowest airspeed at the top of swing (climb out) at 250' agl, and you don't rip the banner in half by snatching it off the ground.

If you fly an entire season, March-October, you can expect to log 700-900 hrs. At the peak I flew from 9:00a-5:30p stopping only 5 minutes between banners to refuel, rehook and shake the dew off my lilly. The ground crew does the refueling, rehooking, checks the oil and pushes the airplane back. I just jump back in "hot and brakes" and one of them hand props the engine. It's alot of fun, the atmosphere is laid back, lots of beer drinking around the picnic table after work, no dress code, you will be a good stick and rudder pilot afterwards..no question about it.

 

[c172]

You Forgot Something

The $2000 Traning Fee

 

[ThomasR]

Job Market

This is probably really stupid, but, why don't they just take off and land with the banner already attached?
*
*
*
*
Yeah, it was that transition fee that stopped me, I think someone called it PFT or something like that. You could probably pay it off in one season but without an agreement in writing you have no job security with the company and there are not many other places to go. Find out what their pilot turn ratio is and the management structure. You might have to live with three or four roommates which gets old fast. Apartment rates in Colorado (tourist areas) starts at $2500 a month.

 

[Bryan D]

The training is required by the FAA and the insurance co. The insurance co. requires 50 hrs tailwheel time, the FAA requires banner tow specific training as specified in the letter of provisions that they grant to banner tow operators.
I was skeptical at first but, if I had'nt taken advantage of this opportunity, as meager as it is, I would still be sitting here with 325 hrs in my logbook wondering where I was going to get hours and move up the ladder. I've made my training costs back and then some, plus logged 800 hrs SEL PIC time. If you do the math 800 hrs at say $50.00 an hr is $40,000. and I did that in 7-8 month's. You won't get rich towing banners but it's a good way to put some hours in the logbook.

 

[groundpointsix]

You made $50/hr flying banners? There are jet pilots who don't make that much.

 

[RipCurl]

He means if he paid $50 an hour, that time would have cost him 40 G's.

 

[momalley81]

This is probably really stupid, but, why don't they just take off and land with the banner already attached?

Well, some operators did used to do that with smaller banners and bigger planes (but I'm talking back in the 40's here). It is incredibly hard on the banner to be dragged across the ground, puts a lot of wear on it, and it's a helluva lot of drag to takeoff with. I don't even think it would be possible to takeoff with a large billboard in tow.

It never fails either, every operator I've seen has a slightly differant pickup technique (hell, most pilots I've seen all pickup differantly too). We used a slightly shallower approach from 200-300' (depending on the plane) and aimed for 80 mph through the poles (ours were 5' high and 10' apart at home, 3' high and 4' apart for temporary poles away from home). We rolled the power on about 3 seconds before you rotated, and hauled back to between a 35 and 70 degree climbout depending on the plane, wind, banner and pilot. We'd kick full rudder on the climbout to see if we caught anything (we didn't have radios). Pushover would be at around 250', if you did it right you'd be leveling off right before the stall, just as the banner started to come off the ground, if you were fast you could pull the power back a touch as you lowered the nose, the transitioned to a climb. I never felt a tug after my first month, sometimes the ground crew would tell me later that they'd see the banner go up, the pause and settle down a few feet, then go back up again, as I'd be a little TOO slow on the top.

Other fun things at our company, was after pickup, we then had to make a tight climbing turn, and look back to proofread the banner (and find out where it went).

Other companies I've seen use a normal 4 or 5 degree approach with power at 90 mph, followed by a sharp pull, transitioning directly to a steep but sustainable climbout.

All in all, some of the most fun I've ever had flying. Best was when there was a cop car in our drop zone (don't know what he was doing there, but it looked like a target to me) I missed though; the lead pole hit about 2' behind his bumper. He did get the message though and was gone when I landed

 

[Bryan D]

You made $50/hr flying banners? There are jet pilots who don't make that much.

He means if he paid $50 an hour, that time would have cost him 40 G's.

Roger. What I was trying to say is that in addition to the $10.00 an hr I was paid, I have to add at least $50.00 in value to the hour of flight time I recieved.

 

[Super_Cub_2414P]

50. an hour isn't to unrealistic, I maid 40. an hour at Aerial Sign a few years ago, that was my 2nd summer with them though, the first was 25. an hour.
If you go with the companys that have the big contracts (800 Collect, Captain Morgan) than you will make the most money.

 

[ClassCAir]

Contacts?

Can anybody email me or post some contacts for the banner towing companies around the country? I realize that it doesn't start until spring, but I want to begin contacting them now. I am willing to relocate.

THANKS!!
ClassCAir
[email protected]