Advice to aspiring airline pilots

[Swaayze]

Goose Egg,

The problem with going to an Eagle or Horizon first, or even worse - too soon from a bottomfeeder, is that you will not be competitive for stepping up from there for many years. The reason you might want to leave a Colgan and take the pay cut is for QOL issues; perhaps you can live in a nicer city, have better bennies and fly nice equipment in a very professional environment where you can turn down a broken airplane or delay in the face of wx without fear of reprisal. 2nd year pay at the quality RJ operators will be darn close to 1900 or even Saab Captain pay at the bottom tier airlines.

In your case, not really that gung-ho for the majors, you'd probably be better off just finding a quality regional or fractional that has a base where you want to live and going there with the intention of staying. If you're low time and really want the fracs then any regional will probably do, or you should really hawk corporate jobs.

Good luck.

 

[CherryBomb]

Uh, don't go to Flexjet????

Whats wrong with the fractionals??? Whats wrong building your PIC time in a Biz jet as opposed to an RJ? The fractionals have a SUPERIOR quality of life and a SUPERIOR pay scale. We have guys that came from the airlines who hated the airline QOL, and not just the regional guys either...

Look at the new hires at Continental, UPS, etc. More and more guys are from the fracs...

 

[Goose Egg]

The problem with going to an Eagle or Horizon first, or even worse - too soon from a bottomfeeder, is that you will not be competitive for stepping up from there for many years.

That's pretty much what I thought you were going to say. And I think that my plan is to do something similar to what you are suggesting--not go right to a "jet" regional yet. Actually, it would be awesome if I could go straight from my "non-jet" job to a frac, but if I have to pay some dues in flying an RJ, then I guess I have to.

In your case, not really that gung-ho for the majors, you'd probably be better off just finding a quality regional or fractional that has a base where you want to live and going there with the intention of staying.

Once again, pretty similar to what I'm planning on, minus the "quality regional with the intention of staying." I'm sure being a captain at a good regional has its positives, but I have no intention of becoming a lifer.

In any case, thanks for your advice.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

Swaayze. I find your approach one of the most realistic I have seen posted concerning a pilot career. It fits with what I have been stating for year. It will take you approximately 10 years to get to a job that will allow you to start making QOL a goal in your job search. Pilots get hired at good places because they have Turbine PIC, you must build turbine PIC to have control over your career. You have to go wherever that job is that gets you turbine PIC. You stay in that job until you can get another job that gives you better turbine PIC, i.e. Bigger airplanes, Turbojet, 121, etc. It is called paying your dues everyone must do it. Some do it in the military, some do it at the regionals, and some do in the on-demand business. Everyone pays his or her dues.

 

[Swaayze]

Uh, don't go to Flexjet????

Whats wrong with the fractionals??? Whats wrong building your PIC time in a Biz jet as opposed to an RJ? The fractionals have a SUPERIOR quality of life and a SUPERIOR pay scale.

Absolutely nothing, but in the context of my original post I stand by the statement. As I said originally, this advice is for aspiring airline pilots who are young and unencumbered. My point is do not go somewhere "better" until you have the turbine PIC if you start at a bottomfeeder and can upgrade there fairly quickly. The FlexJets of the world are a definite step up from the lowball (probably almost all) regionals but I caution anyone on chasing QOL (or bigger/better airplanes or certain domiciles or even more money) too soon at the expense of getting that PIC, unless of course a FlexJet is your desired final destination.

 

[CopilotDoug]

You think just because you have your 2,000 hrs PIC you'll be able to pick and choose which mainline carrier you want to go to? Next thing you know, you're 50 years old and still working for Mesa, waiting for a lick of that brass ring over at SWA where you'll finish off as an FO. Sorry, you gotta pay bills whether you're flying for a dirt bag like Ornstein or raking it in at Emirates. Paying dues was a thing of the 90's. It's everyone for themselves in today's market. Get on with someone you can spend a career with and have a decent lifestyle. The only thing you're guaranteed when you sell your soul to Mesa or Colgan is that you're working for one dirtbag operation.

Plotting out your aviation career is like drawing a line on water.

 

[pilotyip]

Co doug how do you get on with someone decent without PIC time?

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

You will never make it quit now.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Co doug how do you get on with someone decent without PIC time?

My point was, when given the choice between a second and first tier regional, go with the first tier because you'll make better cash. On the flipside, if the market goes tits up again, you're somewhat covered because you can end up making pretty decent money at places like Eagle, COex, Republic, et al.

The only thing you're guaranteeing yourself when you hire on with one of the bottom feeders is that you're taking the worst pay in the 121 world.

This is coming from me, a pretty staunch conservative in my decisions. Some people like taking risks like that, I don't. You don't like it, go suck a lemon.

***Not to single out Mesa and Colgan, but to also include Gulfstream, Great Mistakes, Regions, etc, etc, etc...

 

[30West]

My point was, when given the choice between a second and first tier regional, go with the first tier because you'll make better cash. On the flipside, if the market goes tits up again, you're somewhat covered because you can end up making pretty decent money at places like Eagle, COex, Republic, et al.

The only thing you're guaranteeing yourself when you hire on with one of the bottom feeders is that you're taking the worst pay in the 121 world.

This is coming from me, a pretty staunch conservative in my decisions. Some people like taking risks like that, I don't. You don't like it, go suck a lemon.

***Not to single out Mesa and Colgan, but to also include Gulfstream, Great Mistakes, Regions, etc, etc, etc...

I was with Colgan for 6 years. My soul is quite intact, last time I checked. My QOL was equal to or better in many ways compared to the SJS regionals. I was home every night and I was flying 34 seater for 34 seat pay.
But the bottom line is, it was what I made it. Put my time in and moved on, no regrets.

 

[pilotyip]

Lemons/Limes

Co doug, What are saying? What if a first tier is not available, should you sit on the sidelines instead of building time for your next job? How about when you are between jobs because your last airline just closed the doors, do you not take any job you can get while trying to find another good job? Worst pay is better than no pay while looking for the next job. BTW I like sucking on limes after I take them out of an empty Corona bottle, need taste.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Co doug, What are saying? What if a first tier is not available, should you sit on the sidelines instead of building time for your next job? How about when you are between jobs because your last airline just closed the doors, do you not take any job you can get while trying to find another good job? Worst pay is better than no pay while looking for the next job.

Are we still talking about aspiring airline pilots, YIP? Or furloughs and bankruptcies? Lets peel that orange on a different thread.

***Change in philosophy: If you can AFFORD going to a second tier airline, by all means. If you actually need the money...get on with an RJ operator.

Corona's pretty decent. I'm favoring our neighbor's to the north this month, just switched from Labatts to Moosehead
:beer:

 

[CopilotDoug]

Moderator, my word has been accepted as a Universal Truth. Please close this thread.

End Communication

 

[Goose Egg]

Hey Doug,

LOVE the avatar!

 

[Mud Eagle]

Paying dues was a thing of the 90's. It's everyone for themselves in today's market.

Uh, what?