Advice please!

[BaronPIC]

Hello all,

I'm a 1200TT/110Multi pilot looking at a couple regionals. I've got friends at Colgan and Expressjet who might be able to walk-in my apps, etc. I've wanted to always work at Expressjet (and ultimately SWA), but is it worth going to Colgan for the faster upgrade to get on somewhere bigger and better in light of pay, bases, q.o.l.?

I'm trying to look at everything objectively, so all advice, insight, etc. is very much appreciated. Thanks and fly safe.

-Baron

 

[Flechas]

Give it a try at both. Getting with XJT right now takes a lot more time, not to mention upgrade time, you are looking at at least 4 years unless soemthing big happens.

On the other han, Colgan is a small company, which means fast upgrade. Also, the pay at Colgan is not that bad for the first and second year.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Go to Colgan, get 1000+ turbine PIC, then go fly a jet. The combination of PIC and turbojet time will definitely help out a lot. Yes, people get hired from turboprop operators right into the majors. I just personally think jet time is very valuable, not necessarily as much to the resume as it is to the pilot wanting to move to bigger equipment.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Hello all,

I'm a 1200TT/110Multi pilot looking at a couple regionals. I've got friends at Colgan and Expressjet who might be able to walk-in my apps, etc. I've wanted to always work at Expressjet (and ultimately SWA), but is it worth going to Colgan for the faster upgrade to get on somewhere bigger and better in light of pay, bases, q.o.l.?

I'm trying to look at everything objectively, so all advice, insight, etc. is very much appreciated. Thanks and fly safe.

-Baron

Baron,

I will try to give you my advice but before I do please take everything I say with a BIG grain of salt.

In my opinion I think if given the choice between Colgan and Expressjet I think I would go with Expressjet. I guess the biggest reason to go to Colgan would be if their upgrade time was alot quicker. However, you really dont have all that much time. How long do you think it would take before you should upgrade. Just because you have 1500 doesn't mean you should be in the left seat of a Saab. I knew some people at Expressjet back in 1996 that did it with no problem. However some couldn't hack it.

The way things are going right now the regional you choose could be the regional you are at for a very long time. I know plenty of people at Expressjet that have just decided to stay there and not even try to go to a major. If that were the case and you were at a regional for more than 10 years which one would you rather be at? Expressjet or Colgan?

If you are going to a Regional strictly on upgrade time realize that that can change in the drop of a hat. When I got hired at Continental Express back in 1997 it only took me 8 months to hold ATR Captain. When I left in 2000 it was taking guys about 3-4 years to hold Captain. I dont know what it is now but in a year or so it could be back down to less than a year. You just never know in the industry.

You also want to look at which company is more financially stable. (An oxymoron in this industry) Expressjet has been around a while and has a relatively strong relationship with Big Cal. I dont know the first thing about Colgan so I really can't comment on them.

One last thing to consider. Also think about the fringe benefits of both Carriers. One cool thing about flying for Expressjet is the fact that you can hop on a B-777 First Class to London or Europe (If there is room) on your days off and see some pretty cool places. I really dont know the travel benefits at Colgan so I really can't comment but it might be something that you want to consider.

One thing that does suck about being with Expressjet is the fact that all their hubs are in cities that I am not very crazy about. (IAH, CLE, EWR)
Colgan might have better bases. Picking a carrier that you dont have to commute with is a big decision. I commuted for over 5 years and hated every second of it. Dont commute unless you really have to.

For what it is worth I was at Contiental Express for 3 and 1/2 years and loved every minute of it. The people there are great and the crews have a really good time. Sure they have their problems but so does every other carrier. (Including mighty SWA)

Upgrade time is important but that can change on a dime. Before making a decision of which company to fly for first you are going to need to get the job offer and make it through training. However, there are many things other than upgrade time to look at when trying to get on with a Regional.

Hope this helps. Clear as mud aint it?

 

[BaronPIC]

Dangerkitty,

Thanks a lot for the in-depth reply and advice! Yeah, it's really quite a decision. I've weighed everything you've mentioned for a while and I'll make the best decision based on where I interview and who offers me something.

You've obviously been in my shoes before and thanks again for the insight. Fly safe!

-Baron

 

[Dangerkitty]

Dangerkitty,

Thanks a lot for the in-depth reply and advice! Yeah, it's really quite a decision. I've weighed everything you've mentioned for a while and I'll make the best decision based on where I interview and who offers me something.

You've obviously been in my shoes before and thanks again for the insight. Fly safe!

-Baron

Tell me how it goes. If you have anymore questions please send me a PM. I have been there and I know what you are going through.

I am routing for you. Good luck!

 

[BRA]

Part of a PM i gave someone else

Well i have been here a little while. This company has grown non-stop since i have gotten here. It is hard to give you a read on this place right now because it is always transforming. The growth rate right now is the greatest it has been since i have been here. I think in january we had around 220 pilots on the seniority list, now i think we have around 300. It is hard to ever know how many pilots we have because we always have people quiting. Lately saab captains have been quiting for bigger and better things. Beech upgrades have been happening in as little as 7 months. They like around 2000 total time and 500 in type for that. I think they like 2000 total time with around 700 in type for the saab. FO's quit all the time here, saab and beech. They leave for rj jobs. This works to the advantage of the guys that stay here. If you were hired next week upgrade would appear to be far away, like 2 years, but people always end up quiting and you move through the list quick. What makes our place different is that you have both captains and FO's quiting. A place like ASA probably mostly only has captains quiting. My opinion on the company: It is a means to an end. You gotta have PIC in most cases to move on, or for a buddy at a major to help get you in. You gotta have the mins. Not too many other places i could have gone where i would have done so much for my resume so fast. May be chautauqua only. I highly doubt lack of jet pic will hurt you, but lack of any pic will. QOL: everyone here has a different experience. We have like 25 bases. I would say an average schedule is 4 on, 3 off. You get 2 off on occasion. 2 off sucks of course. It's easier to deal with when you know you are bettering your resume. Of course this place needs a union big time, but once the union comes in then the growth stops, and you have that tug of war that is everywhere in the industry. QOL goes up, upgrades take longer and so on. I hate to say it, but we all just got to get out of the regionals as fast as possible and i think i will get out in the next few years, may be even this year if i get lucky. I am guessing you would like an IAH base? That is where we are growing, strong rumor we will put saab 2000's there by the end of the year or into next year. You would have to think we would get at least ten of those for it to be worth it. They hold 50 people and burn a lot less gas then the rj's. If fuel continues to cost a lot, this place could really grow like a weed with saab 2000's. saab upgrade time? May be a year and a half? We totally will upgrade out of seniorty so if you have the time in type and the total time you may really upgrade sooner then you think. Remember, no union here, no work rules, this can work to your advantage at times. I upgraded with some beech FO's senior to me. None of them had the time, or they had pissed off the company or something. Some people just won't take the ATP written. No written equals no upgrade. If you get the saab, none of the beech FO's in front of you matter, FO's can't change planes like that. You can't bid for a plane after a year or anything. Beech captains can bid the saab after a year in the left seat of the beech. It is totally up to the company if they let them go to the saab though. Confused yet? Good luck!

 

[capt. megadeth]

Can you just apply at both and see what happens? Hopefully, you will have a choice but you never know, you may not be hired at one. Then your decision will be simple.
Good luck.

 

[BaronPIC]

Thanks for the deep insight into culture, etc. at Colgan, BRA. I have a lot of friends that work there and overall, it's a mixed bag of opinions. Some love it and some are waiting to go elsewhere (means to an end). Certain things seem arbitrary there, such as discretion to let guys go from CA on Beech to CA on Saab...Interesting. Well, hopefully soon I'll actually have a choice to make!

Baron

 

[IB6 UB9]

Go where you can get PIC time the fastest...period. My opinion, but it worked for me.

 

[jetflier]

Hello all,

I'm a 1200TT/110Multi pilot looking at a couple regionals. I've got friends at Colgan and Expressjet who might be able to walk-in my apps, etc. I've wanted to always work at Expressjet (and ultimately SWA), but is it worth going to Colgan for the faster upgrade to get on somewhere bigger and better in light of pay, bases, q.o.l.?

I'm trying to look at everything objectively, so all advice, insight, etc. is very much appreciated. Thanks and fly safe.

-Baron

Go fo the PIC time It'll get you a better job faster ($)........

 

[Glacialfury1906]

QOL or PIC?????? Age old debate.....

Thanks for the deep insight into culture, etc. at Colgan, BRA. I have a lot of friends that work there and overall, it's a mixed bag of opinions. Some love it and some are waiting to go elsewhere (means to an end). Certain things seem arbitrary there, such as discretion to let guys go from CA on Beech to CA on Saab...Interesting. Well, hopefully soon I'll actually have a choice to make!

Baron

What's going on Baron? Now I haven't been in this industry a quarter as long as some of the people who posted before me, but I will say this, Going to a company strictly for the quick upgrade is a very very dangerous thing to do. Do you work to live or live to work? What else do you have to live for in this life? Are you married, single, kids, loved ones, etc. Reason being, you could go to Colgan and have your quality of life be less than ideal with no guarantee that you will move on anywhere anytime soon. Or, you could try to get on with one of the handful of "good" regionals (or better), and maybe enjoy a decent quality of life. how old are you? If you're 30 or younger, what's the rush? IF age 60 stays the same you'll have plenty of chances to move on. Just remember, yes senority is everything, but for some people, myself being one of them, quality of life is king. I don't get a buzz from a bigger airplane and I'd rather spend time with my friends and women than getting screwed by my bootleg employer. Know what I'm saying? Some people want to make 777 captain in 4 years. Depends on what you like you know? Just remember if you are fortunate to get an offer from any regional that there is NO GUARANTEE that you will move on quickly with or without PIC. Look at payscales and work rules and just think what if I got stuck here for 4 years???? Could I deal with it? Everyone has different priorities, goals, and situations to asses. Nobody (myself or any other random internet name) could tell you what's the best decision for you to make for you. Even on the regional level there is a wide disparity between airlines, pay and quality of life. I can say that without taking a shot at another carrier and not saying that anybody is better than anyone else. Just things to consider. I wish you the best. Don't let anybody discourage you............

 

[Paul R. Smith]

What's going on Baron? Now I haven't been in this industry a quarter as long as some of the people who posted before me, but I will say this, Going to a company strictly for the quick upgrade is a very very dangerous thing to do. Do you work to live or live to work? What else do you have to live for in this life? Are you married, single, kids, loved ones, etc. Reason being, you could go to Colgan and have your quality of life be less than ideal with no guarantee that you will move on anywhere anytime soon. Or, you could try to get on with one of the handful of "good" regionals (or better), and maybe enjoy a decent quality of life. how old are you? If you're 30 or younger, what's the rush? IF age 60 stays the same you'll have plenty of chances to move on. Just remember, yes senority is everything, but for some people, myself being one of them, quality of life is king. I don't get a buzz from a bigger airplane and I'd rather spend time with my friends and women than getting screwed by my bootleg employer. Know what I'm saying? Some people want to make 777 captain in 4 years. Depends on what you like you know? Just remember if you are fortunate to get an offer from any regional that there is NO GUARANTEE that you will move on quickly with or without PIC. Look at payscales and work rules and just think what if I got stuck here for 4 years???? Could I deal with it? Everyone has different priorities, goals, and situations to asses. Nobody (myself or any other random internet name) could tell you what's the best decision for you to make for you. Even on the regional level there is a wide disparity between airlines, pay and quality of life. I can say that without taking a shot at another carrier and not saying that anybody is better than anyone else. Just things to consider. I wish you the best. Don't let anybody discourage you............

I'm with this guy!!!
I work for XJT though...

Alot of my old college friends went to PDT, Most of them after 4 yrs at PDT are at XJT and they like it here at least they like it a ton more than PDT. Yeah you will top out as an 8 yr FO at xjt at 44/hr whereas Colgan is 37/hr when you make your 15th year as a co-pilot. Perdiem at XJT 1.60, Per diem at Colgan 1.35. Retirement at XJT 401k with up to 6% match and a 2-6% b-fund depending on YOS...Colgan has no 401-k and no B-fund. Profit Sharing at XJT and none at Colgan. We both pay the 75 hr Guarantee. XJT has 3 of the worst cities for hub cities...IAH EWR and CLE...Colgan has about 20 hub cities albeit much smaller, but at least you have a wide variety to chose from.

XJT has a great in-house training department with three sims and some very good instructors..some not so good. I like XJT...though so

It may be 4-5 years for upgrade here at XJT.. Upgrades on the JET back when I got hired were going as fast as 17 months. 5 years later I just upgraded. Things do change and sometimes we miss the boat. Schit happens...I will tell you this...Our guys that were furloughed in 2001 are upgrading now and thats a good thing. CAL will likely continue to take the remaining chosen few ..about 200 but about 25% of those will likely stay here at XJT for QOL reasons..and that should speak volumes about coming to XJT.

BTW I don't mean to bash our Colgan brothers or sisters, I just am glad that I am here and want you to feel the same.

 

[BRA]

"Everyone has different priorities, goals, and situations to asses. Nobody (myself or any other random internet name) could tell you what's the best decision for you to make for you."

Wrong here, this is crazy talk....you can trust a stranger behind the username Bra. Oh, and.... prior performance is not a guarantee of future results, you could upgrade in more or less time then other people at colgan have. What you need to be concerned about is what you can do to get hired at colgan right now. This way, when the call to interview comes, you will be prepared. Do you have an ATP written yet? Do you have an ATP? Other candidates that want to work here may have this, do you? Probably 1 or 3 percent of our interviewees have the type in one of our aircraft, do you? Getting the type is a big decision, each person has to look themselves in the mirror and decide if it is right for them. Some people may not get hired at colgan on there first go at the interview. What you have to do is get back on the horse and try again. Look long and hard at your list of contacts, try to determine if there are any other people you know at colgan that could possibly help you. Remember, those with a pulse will get class dates before those that do not. Can you afford to be giving up seniority just because you don't currently have a pulse? It's your job way before you are ever called for an interview to be ready to interview at colgan air. Late


just having some fun chase!

 

[RDG]

Most definitely apply to both of those and all the rest. Get your foot in the door and if you have the luxury of choosing between one or the other, well, that's a good problem to have. Report back up with the offer letter in hand.

 

[Anais Nin]

XJT has 3 of the worst cities for hub cities...IAH EWR and CLE....

(Shudder).........cant get much worse than those cities!

 

[happyhands!]

I agree with RDG, get the offer first otherwise we are just blowing smoke. I was always told that the best airline to work for was the one that hires you first! take your stuff to everyone and their mom! then see who calls back, interview, get the job, then decide if that is where you want to stay.