Advice on Lear Type

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

Just looking for some solid advice from some salty or crusty veterans in the Lear, or anyone for that matter

I currently fly for a on- demand 135 charter operation in which we fly mostly freight and the occasional pax. We operate a few Lear 24s and on- demand ops are rather or more to the point, frustratingly slow as most of you are aware of.

Our Company isn't in the best of financial straights, and cannot afford to up- grade anyone at this point, much less pay anyone captain's salary.

My questions to anyone are: If I were to get a type, would I be able to log PIC time on the legs I fly that I amthe sole manipulator of the controls (even though I am not a company PIC? ) As far as I am aware of, one can log the time as PIC if they are rated in the aircraft and at the controls( please correct me if I am wrong on this matter).

In addition, after earning your type in the 20 series, that provides you the flexibility of operating as PIC in every Lear except the 45 and 60, correct? Also, having the type would afford me some options with other Lear operators, providing our company doesn't fair well in the future

Lastly, our company works through Simuflite down in Dallas, are there any other companies that offer type rating in the 20 series.

Current times: ~2,400 hrs; 1,100+ ME; 1,000+ turbine.

Any and all suggestions, comments and advice are greatly appreciated and welcomed.

 

[eddie]

Try FlightSafety Tuscon and Simcom, they offer LR35 training.

 

[Capthuff]

If you are typed in the aircraft and flying the aircraft you can log PIC. HOWEVER you can not log PIC if you are not 135 PIC qualified. Just Empty legs - PT91. My advice is if you feel your company is going down the tubes then get with your CP and find out what sort of deal you have with Simuflight. Get the type and 135 PIC check done(and your ATP). Then you can log PIC.
Adding this to what you already have will make you marketable to any other lear operators out there.

If your company takes the check rides with the feds then do the type in the A/C along with the 8410 PIC and it wont cost you anything.

 

[aroundtheblock]

CaptHuff and some good points but I must disagree with him on 1 point. If you go get the type then anytime you are sole manipulator you can log PIC regardless if it is 91 or 135. Logging flight time falls under part 61 not 135. But because of this loop hole that many pilots have takein advantage of, many companies are rewording their questions. They now ask how much Lear time do you have as Captain or the one who signed for and is responsible for the aircraft. Good luck.

 

[Hawker rider]

If you go through Simuflite they have a quick-course which if you already fly as SIC shouldn't be a problem, lasts 5 days and cost for a normal company about$6000 this was about 2 years agoso it might have changed a bit. If your company gets a better deal through them it'll only help.

Offcourse you can take a ride with the FAA, then the company only has to pay for the jet for about 1,5 hours and you can get everything done at once too, our reasoning was that 1,5 hour is a lot cheaper then $6000 so that's what we planned on doing, until the insurance company wanted me to go to simuflite, since i didn't have a lot of Total time.

Anyway, i don't know if the Lear type will make you look a lot better fopr other companies, there seem to be a LOT of pilots with LR-jet on the back of their certificate....

 

[avbug]

While logging of flight time is always regulated by 14 CFR 61.51, one should always observe the limitations of Part 135 when logging PIC in an operation conducted under that part.

Employers will look at time logged as sole manipulator PIC under Part 135, when one is not PIC, with strong suspicion. It appears as padding one's logbook, and is in fact padding one's logbook. The certificate holder assigns a pilot-in-command for a given flight, and that individual retains that authority for the duration of the flight operation.

An attempt from one who is not qualified under the certificate to act as PIC, to log their flying as PIC, speaks poorly of that individual, and may well cost you an interview. It speaks of ignorance, and not to the professionalism required to log time not only in accordance with the regulation, but in accordance with industry standard.

Industry standard is that under Part 121 and 135, the PIC designated by the certificate holder IS the PIC, and logs the flight as pilot in command. If you're not the acting pilot in command, don't log the time as PIC.

The Learjet type doesn't cover the 31; it's a separate type, as it the 45 and the 60.

 

[aroundtheblock]

A correction for Avbug's response.

The Lear 31 is covered under the Lear Jet type.

Also in regards to the logging of PIC time, if a pilot is rated in the aircraft and is sole manipulator of the controls he can log the time as PIC. Plain, simple and legal. There are several ways to log PIC and multiple people can log PIC for the same flight. This is not considered unethical or padding. My only comment before was for this guy, if he gets the type, to log those legs flown as PIC so that he might meet insurance requirements in the future. What airlines count as PIC varies from airline to airline. Some airlines take all PIC time, others don't ask for PIC time but rather time when you were the one who was the commander of the flight or the one who signed for the plane. At my company I am a line Lear Captain, and occasionally they pair me with another line Captain due to scheduling needs. As captain on the trip manifest, I log the whole thing as PIC and the other pilot logs those legs flown as PIC and the co-pilot legs as SIC. That is industry standard.

 

[avbug]

I stand corrected on the Learjet type, I could sworn it didn't cover the 31, but reviewing AC 61-81 (I believe), the type is shown to cover the 31.

One can legally log PIC as sole manipulator. However, unless one is the acting PIC under part 121 or 135, one should NOT log sole manipulator time as PIC. THAT is industry standard.

 

[Mr Freeze]

LR-JET Type covers
23, 24, 25, 28, 31, 35, 36 and 55.

Differences training is needed per series of airplane, for example: 20's to 30's 55 to 20's ect.

The Lear 45 and 60 series require their own specific type per airplane.

Flight Safety has Lear programs Wichita, KS and Tucson, AZ.
You can customize your training with FSI to meet your needs.

Good luck.

 

[AJWick]

I got my Lear type in MCO at Simcom...pretty nice facilities.
fair weather year round.

btw- around the block, you may want to review part 135 and part 121 regarding PIC. Part 61 the way I see it is a very general definition and the PIC def. is further defined under the respective operational part.

Unless you are designated as a PIC (completion of the ground and sim type ratings and IOE )under these operations, you can not log PIC. Seems clear to me.

aj