advice on becoming an FE

cl65

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hello!!! how its going?. Well, i am new to this site and i wanted some info on becoming a FE and eventually work as a pilot for ups, fed, dhl. i have my A & P and i am currently flying a crj as a first officer. Have close to 1500 hours TT but a few hundred PIC.

i am less than 2 years from upgrade. Seems like cargo airlines have close to 12,000 applications on file and its becoming extremely hard to get a job as a pilot. I was thinking that maybe i could get my foot in the door as a Flight engineer and work my way up as a pilot. i am in my late 20's and i am thinking long term, do not wish to work for 5 airlines before i retire. Any help is appreciated. thanks
 

capt. megadeth

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T-Gates said:
Airlines like FedEx/UPS/DHL (Astar and ABX) all hire pilots. None of those companie's hire FE's at a lower experience level. Even if most new hires go to the side seat.

I have heard that companies like Tradewinds, Kalitta, Express.Net and CAT will hire low time guys as FE's and then upgrade them later. Mabye thats something you can look into.

But if I was less than 2 years from upgrade at a regional, I would stay put if I were you. Especially if your company isn't on very shaky ground like some are.
I agree. Get your PIC turbine time as soon as you can and your FE written. By the time you get to competitive mins (TT and PIC), you may not even need to be an FE at UPS, FedEx, etc. Even if you go to a company like Tradewinds, Kalitta, etc. to get FE experience, you will be lacking the flight time you need to meet the minimums to get called for an interview. Stay where you are at, get your total time up, upgrade when you can, get at least 2000 PIC Turbine, network and THEN if all that doesn't work, worry about getting an FE ticket and experience. Good luck.
 

flyinyourShorts

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Two words for you, career suicide!
 

SierraPapa356

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What if you worked for a company that would let you in the FE seat than transition to SO, wouldnt that be a good way to go? And who is DP..
 

AdlerDriver

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SierraPapa356 said:
What if you worked for a company that would let you in the FE seat than transition to SO, wouldnt that be a good way to go? And who is DP..
:confused: FE (Flight Engineer) = SO (Second Officer). It's just a PC way to make a pilot who's plumbing a 727/DC-8/DC-10/whatever, feel better about his current position.

Most companys flying aircraft that need an engineer, use that position as an entry level job. It doesn't matter where you're coming from, you're going to be an FE as a new hire. There are some smaller company's operating 3 man aircraft that may hire PFEs (Professional Flight Engineers). These are non-pilots with a FE ticket who never plan on doing anything other than be an FE.

Bottom line: Getting hired as a Flight Engineer at Fedex/UPS is usually how EVERYONE gets hired there. It's not some "back door" method of getting on at those companies. At Fedex, you might not finish your FE school before you get a bid to the right seat, but that's just because things are good there right now. :D
 

AdlerDriver

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cl65 said:
...... i am in my late 20's and i am thinking long term, do not wish to work for 5 airlines before i retire. Any help is appreciated. thanks
Long term is good. If you don't want to work for 5 airlines, pursuing Fedex/UPS is a smart move. I wish I had thought like that when I was in my late 20s. At least I got it right eventually.

If you want a job at Fedex, there's no way to "end run" the rest of the 12,000 folks with apps on file there. The best way for you is probably upgrade into the left seat of your current jet and get, at least, your 1000 hours of PIC turbine. Get an app on file. Network and find a pilot you've flown with who's at Fedex who will "sponsor" you. The only way you'll get on at Fedex is to have someone on the "inside" pull you in.
 

Clyde

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cl65 said:
hello!!! how its going?. Well, i am new to this site and i wanted some info on becoming a FE and eventually work as a pilot for ups, fed, dhl. i have my A & P and i am currently flying a crj as a first officer. Have close to 1500 hours TT but a few hundred PIC.

i am less than 2 years from upgrade. Seems like cargo airlines have close to 12,000 applications on file and its becoming extremely hard to get a job as a pilot. I was thinking that maybe i could get my foot in the door as a Flight engineer and work my way up as a pilot. i am in my late 20's and i am thinking long term, do not wish to work for 5 airlines before i retire. Any help is appreciated. thanks
cl65,

The best advice that I can give you is to keep building your hours and network like crazy. As I am sure you are well aware, it's not what you know, but rather who you know.

Now, to directly address your question. With regards to being an FE, if the airline requires you to have the written, take it, keep it current, and do nothing more other than making sure you meet the other qualifications listed by the potential employer.

With regards to brown, a candidate is hired in as a flight officer. This could be an FE or an FO, it all depends on where they need you at the time. Regardless, you are still going to have to meet the flight time requirements as well as the other listed requirements to be competitive.

Some airlines do hire people into the back seat if they have the FE ticket. I can't think of any in particular right now, and I do not want to speculate. But, the legacy and other majors usually only did this on a very rare occassion.

It is good to see that you are looking long-term. Don't let the 12,00 applications scare you. If you are one of the 12,000 who has an app on file somewhere and are concerned, I can assure you that there are 11,999 people who share that same concern.
 

flyinyourShorts

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T-Gates said:
Two words for you....


DICK PEACOCK
In Toledo that is quickly being replaced by....

NOWOTNY!!
 

Wang Chung

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T-Gates said:
Two words for you....


DICK PEACOCK
Dude, that's old skool.

What's that guy doing nowadays?
 

WickedPissa

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capt. megadeth said:
I agree. Get your PIC turbine time as soon as you can and your FE written. By the time you get to competitive mins (TT and PIC), you may not even need to be an FE at UPS, FedEx, etc. Even if you go to a company like Tradewinds, Kalitta, etc. to get FE experience, you will be lacking the flight time you need to meet the minimums to get called for an interview. Stay where you are at, get your total time up, upgrade when you can, get at least 2000 PIC Turbine, network and THEN if all that doesn't work, worry about getting an FE ticket and experience. Good luck.
You may not even need to be an FE at UPS or FedEx????

Even if you're sitting sideways, you're still making $65+ an hour second year with a great future ahead of you. Suck it up for a couple years as SO, and then make well over $100 in the right seat. (If the opportunity ever came up in the future).
 

AdlerDriver

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WickedPissa said:
You may not even need to be an FE at UPS or FedEx????

Even if you're sitting sideways, you're still making $65+ an hour second year with a great future ahead of you. Suck it up for a couple years as SO, and then make well over $100 in the right seat. (If the opportunity ever came up in the future).
A couple of years?? Guys are spending less than 2 months as an SO before they're upgrading to the right seat.
 

capt. megadeth

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WickedPissa said:
You may not even need to be an FE at UPS or FedEx????

Even if you're sitting sideways, you're still making $65+ an hour second year with a great future ahead of you. Suck it up for a couple years as SO, and then make well over $100 in the right seat. (If the opportunity ever came up in the future).
No doubt. I meant that by the time this guy/gal gets his/her min. quals, FedEx and/or UPS may not have 3 man airplanes.....know what I mean?
 

b757driver

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SierraPapa356 said:
What if you worked for a company that would let you in the FE seat than transition to SO, wouldnt that be a good way to go? And who is DP..
I think you meant FO not SO.......the FE is also referred to sometimes as a Second Officer (SO). First Officers (FOs) are co-pilots....;)
 

b757driver

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cl65 said:
....... i am in my late 20's and i am thinking long term, do not wish to work for 5 airlines before i retire. Any help is appreciated. thanks
Take some advice from those that have been in this game for a lot longer than you have.

Stick with what you have, the less you switch and change the better. Forget the FE writtens and ticket. It will not enhance your prospects. I took them 3 times back in the last decade to keep my chances in with the majors - did not make a blind bit of difference, only cost me more bucks!

Having said that, we all do not wish to work for 5 or more airlines before retirement. My friend, if you stay in this industry, it is highly likely that you will not have the luxury of staying with one employer for the rest of your career! :crying: I am willing to bet there are far more guys that have gone through 3 or more employers because of layoffs or furloughs than there are single employer guys. I think that was back in the 70s/80s. It's a whole new ball game now. But good luck.
 
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