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Additional fuel

FlightOpsAB

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Question for all of you. What is your company's (and your own) stand on Captains taking additional fuel? Is there a certain amount that they are allowed to take without checking in with Dx?

Any opinions?
 
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SKC

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Ours have the freedom to add up to 1500kgs/3000lbs without notification.

737/757/MD80
 
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dispatchguy

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Ours have up to 1000 lbs of Captains Add fuel without permission or release amendment, provided it doesnt bump revenue.

Beyond that they need a release amendment.

Type: CRJ700
 

flyjumpseat

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At OO, all equipment types:

No restriction or release amendment required for Captain to add fuel.
No approval from Dispatch required for reduction of fuel - up to 200 pounds or half the extra (contingency) fuel, whichever is most restrictive. Greater reductions require communication with Dispatcher.

If extra fuel = 500 lbs, Captain can reduce to 300. (down 200)
If extra fuel = 300 lbs, Captain can reduce to 150. (down 1/2 of the extra)
 

hoover

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At my company, the PIC must get the concurrence of the dispatcher and an amendment to either add fuel above the gate fuel or go below the takeoff min. In short very little leeway without the dispatcher's agreement
 

Bart Simpson

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Wouldn't the PIC always have to have his/her release amended when there is a change of fuel?
Think about it:
When there is a change of fuel (more or less, don't matter) there is a change in weight
AND a change in weight means a change in burn
AND a change in burn means a different min fuel number
HENCE
is he/she really legal to go when the min numbers change?

But whatever, I'm happy as long as my FE doesnt crap out on me.
 

SKC

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Our release has a statement for the Capt that gives the change in fuel burn for every 200lbs/kgs to weight. That allows the Capt to add/remove fuel and still have an accurate burn.
 

DX Rick

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I never understood why the captain has to notify us if they were taking MORE fuel. But I was never one to argue with the captain. What ever he wants, he can have. No need to argue over everything like some dx'ers feel the need to.
He wants to over load the plane with fuel so he can't push....he can go do the carpet dance.
 

flyjumpseat

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Bart Simpson said:
Wouldn't the PIC always have to have his/her release amended when there is a change of fuel?
Think about it:
When there is a change of fuel (more or less, don't matter) there is a change in weight
AND a change in weight means a change in burn
AND a change in burn means a different min fuel number
HENCE
is he/she really legal to go when the min numbers change?

But whatever, I'm happy as long as my FE doesnt crap out on me.

Bart, using this logic, we'd be pushing a second release for every flight.

We plan the flight based on current bookings (+3 or +4 depending on aircraft type) and standard checked bag weight for total passengers. So, if we plan the flight for 45 passengers, and only 40 actually show - should we issue another release?
 

Bart Simpson

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Good point there.
Technically, yes, we would need to "push" a second release right before they start pushback. Aren't we supposed to have operational control?
I'm not saying that I wanna add to our workloads BUT in terms of legalities, aren't we supposed to have a 'good' release?
What happens when you plan a flight with 20 pax and shortly before departure time, an extra 20 pax show up? Is the flight legal? Maybe if you planned it with the actual number of passengers, you would've gotten a warning that the flight will be above landing weight? How is the release legal if we don't even know what the actual min fuel is?
But I concede, I can always become a truckdriver and make tons of cash.
 

SKC

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...or be dealing with an aircraft that the min fuel is 64,000 lbs where 20 people is just a drop in the bucket. :)
 

RVSM

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DX Rick said:
I never understood why the captain has to notify us if they were taking MORE fuel. But I was never one to argue with the captain. What ever he wants, he can have. No need to argue over everything like some dx'ers feel the need to.
He wants to over load the plane with fuel so he can't push....he can go do the carpet dance.

You have the big picture on Operations WX and lastly, economics. Way better often than the crew does. If he is adamant about it then yes, go along to get along (within reason).
(My favorite is the guy that wants more fuel because of what happened at xxx airport due to the wx last week.)

Most folks think 500 lbs is no big deal. Consider this
Roughly 3000 flts per day. Fuel average around $1.90
3000x500/6.8x1.90=$419,117.65 per day!
Heck yes I am going to question 500lbs.
If he/she thinks he/she needs the fuel, then I need to know if he/she knows something I don't. If there is a legit reason then thanks for letting me know and I will plan accordingly on other flight in that AOR. If not then I have to use my diplomacy skills.
 

Elmer Fishpaw

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As long as they meet min fuel we don't require a call from a Captain adding extra fuel. Captains most always give us a heads up as a courtesy which is appreciated.We don't fly large ac, and they call is a courtesy as maybe the upline flight is booked heavy or whatever.
 
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homerjdispatch

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wait a minute!

RVSM said:
Most folks think 500 lbs is no big deal. Consider this
Roughly 3000 flts per day. Fuel average around $1.90
3000x500/6.8x1.90=$419,117.65 per day!
Heck yes I am going to question 500lbs.

Those numbers sound terrible, but you have to consider that extra 500 lbs WILL NOT BE BURNT! The aircraft will land at the destination wih 400 to 475 lbs more fuel than planned. So next fuel order will be less.

You should only consider the amout of fuel burned to carry the extra fuel.

3000x30/6.8x1.90=$25,147.06

Still a lot of CASH but no where close to $419,000 a day.



Example 1:
flight 1 ABC-DEF is planned at 6000 lbs fuel
crew takes 6000 lbs
when it gets to DEF crew gets next release for DEF-ABC
Fuel needed to bring level up to Release fuel is 5500LBS
Crew orders 5500 lbs
Total fuel purchased= 11500 lbs

Example 2:
Flight 1 ABC-DEF is planned at 6000 Lbs fuel
Crew takes 6500 lbs
when it gets to DEF crew gets next release for DEF-ABC
Fuel needed to bring level up to Release fuel is 5050 LBS
Crew orders 5050 LBS
total fuel purchased= 11550

Difference 50 LBS
 
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Bart Simpson

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Extra Fuel = Extra Weight
Extra Weight = More Fuelburn
Higher Fuelburn = Extra Gas

But whatever, like I said earlier, as long as my FE is working, I'm happy.
 

Birddog

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We are given fuel price info on our releases and are encouraged to tanker when ever there is an economic benefit. Fuel burn info for the additional weight is also included. No call to dispatch is required.
 

ss9e

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captain can add the following fuel without amending the release...

b-727........5000
a300/310...7500
dc-10........10000
md-10/11...10000
 

SeaChicken

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Right now we have it where if the captain does not want to take the extra fuel planned for him then he does not need to take it. But on the otherside if he wants to add fuel he needs to call into dispatch.
 

ShutupandFly

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Our flights can be overfueled 200lb (CRJ2) before a new release is requered and any underfuel requiers a new release.
 
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