Additional 50 seaters arrive in CVG...Maybe

[FlyComAirJets]

Reality Check 101

It is rather astounding fools like drag manage to get themselves dressed in the morning. It is scarey that they fly airplanes of any size. The RJ is not the cause of the industry's problems or the compensation levels -- it's called deregulation. In this era Low Cost Carriers are here to stay, always have been, always will be. There is always going to be the hot airline du juor that catches the media (and consequently, investors') attention. If it isn't JetBlue and Air Tran, it would be ValueJet or People Express. It is a fact of life.

If it gets you off blaming RJ's for the inability of mainline airlines to sustain regulated era pay-work rules-pensions, etc., then so be it but your anger is completely misdirected. RJ's have supplied critical feed into the traditional hub and spoke operations that have propped up (pun intended) the dinosaur carriers for years. Trying to scope out RJ's is the ultimate example of mainline pilots shooting themselves in the foot.

With passenger loads back to 2001 levels and the FAA recently predicting a %100 increase over the next few years, more people than ever will be flying. Which airline they chose to fly remains to be determined. It's called competition. Quit you whining and deal with it.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

It is rather astounding fools like drag manage to get themselves dressed in the morning. It is scarey that they fly airplanes of any size. The RJ is not the cause of the industry's problems or the compensation levels -- it's called deregulation. In this era Low Cost Carriers are here to stay, always have been, always will be. There is always going to be the hot airline du juor that catches the media (and consequently, investors') attention. If it isn't JetBlue and Air Tran, it would be ValueJet or People Express. It is a fact of life.

If it gets you off blaming RJ's for the inability of mainline airlines to sustain regulated era pay-work rules-pensions, etc., then so be it but your anger is completely misdirected. RJ's have supplied critical feed into the traditional hub and spoke operations that have propped up (pun intended) the dinosaur carriers for years. Trying to scope out RJ's is the ultimate example of mainline pilots shooting themselves in the foot.

With passenger loads back to 2001 levels and the FAA recently predicting a %100 increase over the next few years, more people than ever will be flying. Which airline they chose to fly remains to be determined. It's called competition. Quit you whining and deal with it.

Whining about competition? Let's talk about competition.The deck is stacked against the legacy carriers, and has been for a long time. If this industry had the "competition" as related to other industries, there would be no jetblus, no airtrans, no SWA, etc. They all would have been buried from the start. the legacies would have never let them get a foothold. To take it one step further, CAL, America West, UAL, USAirways have been allowed to festerin BK in the spirit of "competition" while also being allowed to rape employees, lower prices, and mismanage companies. Competition? I don't think so.

Then we come to those who relish what is happening. The JBlu pilots/employees, the SWA pilots/employees, and other pilots/employees whos jealousy over having not just seem to drool over the prospect of an NWA captain losing his pension--despite time and effort he has put into his career. They relish the prospect of larger planes for less money. The shortsightedness of pilots never ceases to amaze me. The Comair pilots and ASA pilots have praised jesus for their beloved RJ and their keen insight back wehn the rj came to market. Delta seemed to agree and overextended themselves into many more of them than the market will support in today's environment. But management found something else, cheap pilots, crews, mechanics, and gate agents. It is this reason, and not the skill, paradigm shift, or any other catch phrase which has the likes of Chautauqua, Republic, Mesa, Skywest starting to grow. It isn't your RJ, it's crummy pay and benefits. I say crummy as someone who has broken free, and seen the other side of a contract, the good side.

What these people don't realize is that the mainline pilots are/were right all along. You are less professional, because you fly for less professional compensation. Whore is the correct word. Don't get me wrong, as I was one as well, but I never kidded myself into walking into management's carrot on a stick.

Of course, it is all water under the bridge now. The majors have no choice but to follow the lead. You are all lemmings for being led to the slaughter. I am glad to be gone from it.

--a formerly concerned regional pilot

 

[~~~^~~~]

Hey now. He is partially correct depending on where DL places the RJs. Bye Bye--General Lee

No Gen. The RJ's are Delta's airplanes too. Only the pilot group decided to discriminate. The passengers don't know the difference.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The RJ has it's place in this industry the same way your 727, DC9, larger DC9, 757, or 767 do or did.
Not true. The RJ has no rank next to the proven history of the 727, DC9, and 75/76. All of these types enhanced the profession. The RJ and it's current wage and bennie package continues to damage the career.

Actually the RJ is a DC-9 with much better performance, same as the E120 was a Convair, or F27, beater. The only difference in the "profession" is that ALPA mainline promoted the creation of alter ego air carriers for the flying that they had performed, but now felt was beneath their "profession." Now Mid Atlantic pilots make less than RJ pilots.

Delta has F27 pilots and ATR pilots on their seniority list that never "interviewed" at Delta. The only difference between now and then is ALPA National's failure to lead us in the direction of unity.

And Comair guys are wetting their panties over a phantom additional RJ that they took concessions to buy - again, ALPA National should have never let an MEC negotiate in their narrow self interest to lower the profession.

Don't blame the whores, blame the cops that should be enforcing the Constitution and Bylaws.

 

[drag]

This is not a personal attack. Say what you want, but the RJ industry has grown and replaced a chunk of what used to be narrowbody mainline flights. The pay/bennies of these carriers is lower than many factory jobs. This is a fact. I never meant to imply that individual pilots aren't professional. However, what used to be viewed as a "professional career" is now gone.

Perhaps, a review of one CHPERPLT post following my initial response to this thread will show who's professional. Back to the original topic.....

1. Being cramped on a RJ for a flight over 45 mins is much worse than a flight on LUV. LUV would be an upgrade in service.
2. The industry is facing an overcapacity situation.
3. DAL pushed more mainline growth w/ the expansion of an RJ fleet. The RJ was to feed the hub...not replace a significant chunk.

These statements are facts. If that makes me a "putz, piehole, Einstein, and tool so be it. After stating these points I'm still able to dress myself in the morning too.

 

[drag]

scopeCMRandASA,

Excellent post. Congrats on seeing the light.

 

[chperplt]

This is a fact. I never meant to imply that individual pilots aren't professional. However, what used to be viewed as a "professional career" is now gone

Drag,

Big difference in your first statement and your last.

Intentions aside, you did imply that the regional level pilot was not professional and that I took exception to.

 

[drag]

Actually the RJ is a DC-9 with much better performance

That's an interesting comment. Funny, I remember being told that RJ's were to replace turboprops on feeder cities. So I guess it's true, RJ's are replacing mainline. Is the better performance in regards to density altitude or cheaper labor?

 

[jarhead]

I'm probably just blowing my pie hole but are you aware that Chicago school bus drivers make more than senior RJ Captains.

Chicago school bus drivers make $95,000 and up? Man, where can I sign up for that. Nine months work M-F in just the morning for two hours and then again in the afternoon for just a few hours a day. Then all summer off. Wow! I'm moving to Chicago with all that good pay!

In answer to your question, No, I was not aware that Chicago school bus drivers were paid so well. Give me a link to that statistic please. I may want to apply.

Please tell me you weren’t just jerking my chain, and that I can drive a school bus for $95,000 or more per year in Chicago. That job doesn’t pay squat here in Minnesota where I live.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually the RJ is a DC-9 with much better performance

That's an interesting comment. Funny, I remember being told that RJ's were to replace turboprops on feeder cities. So I guess it's true, RJ's are replacing mainline. Is the better performance in regards to density altitude or cheaper labor?

Actually mainline labor is cheaper if you plot out pilot's salaries by the seat mile. And in very real terms mainline is cheaper at US Air. ASA's ATR pilots make between 12 and 30% more than Mid Atlantic' E170 pilots.

Drag - what you don't realize is that an RJ is an airplane, like a 767 is an airplane. ALPA should not discriminate. The mainline guys are responsible for this discrimination and for its creation. The Delta MEC negotiated and endorsed the scope loopholes that became ASA and Comair. Clearly in this case the chicken came before the egg.

747 pilots might lament those little 767's that took the transatlantic flying, as you lament the replacement of some 737's with RJ's. The size of the airplane does not matter. What matters is how organized labor negotiates to protect the wages and working conditions of those engaged in the profession.

But the RJ is an airplane. Like any airplane it has a limited market. Mostly it feeds larger airplanes, but there are cases where it can provide hub bypass. Gas prices will drive the market towards larger airplanes, where the cost per seat mile is less. Fuel hurts the RJ is the same way the old generation 737's ad DC-9's are effected, it reduces the number of markets where they makes sense.

So stop worrying and learn to love the RJ. It works feeding larger airplanes, particularly in the days of $2.00 a gallon jet fuel.