Add 'pilot' to list of jobs that aren't so great now

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

The conclusion

As soon as I read the article and saw Kit darby's statement about Lubbock, I realized that "the general" is kit darby!

Anyone else see it?

KBB

 

[kmox29]

Purple Sunsets and unicorn formations...

For some reason, when I picture this, I laugh aloud.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Wow, you are one angry little girl. If the guy at the top of the pyramid earns $200,000 or less what do you think the lower levels are going to look like?

Oh gee, I don't know.....six figures? Poor little babies.....you have is sooooooooooo tough. STFU moron.


Congratulations, you have just proven conclusively that you have no clue how to negotiate. YOU made the INITIAL OFFER! Of course he took it genius. Was he able to hide his smile?

So you made the NBAA average your starting point. I am not even going to try to explain this one to you.

He didn't hide his smile and neither did I. You mean to tell me that making the same average salary that everyone else in the country flying the same equipment is not fair? Of course it isn't; you're one of those militant union types that thinks everyone else is scum and out to get you. Some of us are a bit more civilized then that and can act like gentlemen. You, of course, don't really give a damn about anybody but yourself, and will pi$$ all over whoever you have to to get it. Tell me something, how well are your first year FO's taken care of? How are those reserve work rules? Oh right........senior captains negotiate the contracts and could give a rat's a$$ about the first year FO's. I WANT MY EXTRA $20 AN HOUR!! I DON'T CARE ABOUT RESERVE RULES!!! I DON'T SIT RESERVE! I WANT A RAISE!! TAKE IT AWAY FROM THE RAMPERS AND THE MECHANICS!! SURE THE FIRST YEAR FO'S CAN MAKE $20k! THAT'S FINE! I GET MY MONEY!!! It's amazing, some of us in this world actually give a damn about others, and can see the big picture. You obviously can't.



Narrowbody lineholding CA at a legacy major. I guess you are unfamiliar with UAL and USAir payrates. You are no better than the flying public who believe ALL airline pilots earn phenomenal salaries.

Then use your mega super awesome negotiating skills and get a raise. Are you a part of the union or do you just sit on the sidelines and whine?




Why am I not surprised.


What happened was he worked in a job with 100% job security and a government guaranteed pension. Therefore he could afford to invest all of his discretionary income in as high risk a portfolio as he could stomach as he was a ward of the state. Color me unimpressed with daddy.

Unimpressed? Maybe he's smarter than you. Maybe he's smarter than us both. Maybe he chose a career path where he knew him and his family were going to be taken care of forever. Maybe, on top of that, he took steps with what he had to insure a sizable income for life even after retirement, along with a nice inheritance to leave behind. Enjoy pi$$ing all your money away. Maybe you should do the same.



Retirement planning is easy when everbody else is paying to finance your retirement.



I am sure that it is.

It was not your father's "smart investments" that provided him with security, it was the government's largess. Gaurentee my employment for life and I too will be able to make "smart" investments. One of these days you are going to have to stand on your own and stop citing daddy as your example. How is your retirement plan looking?


My retirement plan has been in motion since the day I left college. I have a running 401K, along with 2 Roth IRA's that I have already been putting in to for 10 years. In order to contribute the max every year, I go without crap like new plasma TV's, pontoon boats, and a new car every 2 years. It's not that hard, junior. Maybe you should look more than 10 minutes ahead sometime in your life

Oh yeah.......I also noticed you didn't have a damn thing in the world to say about my other friend from the private sector. Cat got your tongue?



Clearly you are used to being a ward of the state. Your entire premise seems to be built around lifetime employment and COLA raises. Neither of these exist outside of government employment.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but as I've moved up, so has my salary. I started low when I started out, now my qualifications speak for a much higher paycheck then they did when I was 25. I have also NEVER left a company at the same salary I was hired at. Of course, you don't have that luxury in the airline industry, but that is entirely of your own doing. YOU wanted a seniority based, hourly wage type compensation package, and you got it. YOU wanted people to start at the bottom from day 1 and you got it. Most any other industry, and in 91 and 135 flying experience demands compensation. You made your bed, now you sleep in it. You started down this path X number of years ago, claimed you knew what you were getting in to, and now you're whining about where you are. Not my damn problem. You don't like it? Change it. Change careers.



As a privately employed taxpayer, boy do I know that it's my problem.



If you have guaranteed lifetime employment, healthcare and a pension then perhaps. Unfortunately these conditions do not exist in the real world.

They do and they don't.....honestly it's a matter of luck. But, if you're smart, you can take steps to insure that when luck isn't with you, good planning is going to be something to fall back on.....a concept lost on most of you. My uncle worked for the same individual for 30 years flying a Citation single pilot. He's retired and happy now, and his boss was a good man that took care of him. I'd bet any amount of money you wouldn't have lasted 2 years there because you'd be demanding, whiny, and untrusting, always assuming that the big bad rich man was out to get you. So sad.



Why not? It sounds great. According to you contract guys can earn more than I can. Why leave that gravy train?

Explained that in my last post. Again LEARN TO READ PLEASE.



Your arguments belay your true feelings. You seem to think that salaries will go up on their own. (As someone who was raised under government employment I can see how you would come to this conclusion.)

They won't. They need to be driven up and statements like "flying is the easiest job in the world 90% of the time" will never result in that happening.

So, basically, I need to lie, right?


I like my job very much and think the guys who spend every flight bitching are a waste of space.

That is not what we are talking about however. We are talking about what is an appropriate statement to either the press, outsiders or management.

Sullinberger did a good job during his testimony to Congress. He did not talk of unicorns, rainbows and magic takeoffs. That does not mean he bitches about his job constantly.



You still don't get it but I hope you oneday do.


There's only one of us here that doesn't get it, and it's not me. God help your kids if you have any.

.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Two points....

The issue goes from comments taken out of text to rabid fighting amongst ourselves.

Never talk to the press. They will cut, modify, enhance and do whatever they can to give your comments an edge that will sell newspapers. The temptation is very strong when a reporter approaches you. It is like being in a police interrogation room... you feel if you just tell the truth they'll understand and let you go.....

Don't talk to the press....... ever.

 

[ableone]

Oh gee, I don't know.....six figures? Poor little babies.....you have is sooooooooooo tough. STFU moron.

For someone so obviously challenged you throw the moron word around pretty often.

Congratulations, you have just proven conclusively that you have no clue how to negotiate. YOU made the INITIAL OFFER! Of course he took it genius. Was he able to hide his smile?

So you made the NBAA average your starting point. I am not even going to try to explain this one to you.

He didn't hide his smile and neither did I. You mean to tell me that making the same average salary that everyone else in the country flying the same equipment is not fair?

We are not talking about what is fair. We are talking about what is smart. You left money on the table, which is not smart.

Secondly those averages are the result of individuals raising the bar by negotiating with purpose to increase their own pay and the average. You not only did a disservice to yourself but to others as well.

Of course it isn't; you're one of those militant union types that thinks everyone else is scum and out to get you. Some of us are a bit more civilized then that and can act like gentlemen. You, of course, don't really give a damn about anybody but yourself, and will pi$$ all over whoever you have to to get it. Oh right........senior captains negotiate the contracts and could give a rat's a$$ about the first year FO's. I WANT MY EXTRA $20 AN HOUR!! I DON'T CARE ABOUT RESERVE RULES!!! I DON'T SIT RESERVE! I WANT A RAISE!! TAKE IT AWAY FROM THE RAMPERS AND THE MECHANICS!! SURE THE FIRST YEAR FO'S CAN MAKE $20k! THAT'S FINE! I GET MY MONEY!!! It's amazing, some of us in this world actually give a damn about others, and can see the big picture. You obviously can't.

Take it easy, don't blow a gasket.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Though there is no excuse for a contract that raids the juniors to improve the seniors, there must be increases at the top levels in order to improve the lower levels.

You are not more civilized, you are less intelligent. You did not know how to negotiate your pay and you were laid off. Not a surprise.

Then use your mega super awesome negotiating skills and get a raise. Are you a part of the union or do you just sit on the sidelines and whine?

When I worked corporate and on - demand I did negotiate both my initial pay and later pay raises. ( Clue - I never referenced an NBAA "average". )

As far as the airline, where collective bargaining is in play, I have been extensively involved with the union. Though it does become tiring helping out people such as yourself who can not operate on their own.

Why am I not surprised.


What happened was he worked in a job with 100% job security and a government guaranteed pension. Therefore he could afford to invest all of his discretionary income in as high risk a portfolio as he could stomach as he was a ward of the state. Color me unimpressed with daddy.

Unimpressed? Maybe he's smarter than you. Maybe he's smarter than us both. Maybe he chose a career path where he knew him and his family were going to be taken care of forever. Maybe, on top of that, he took steps with what he had to insure a sizable income for life even after retirement, along with a nice inheritance to leave behind. Enjoy pi$$ing all your money away. Maybe you should do the same.

We can't all be government employees.

Retirement planning is easy when everbody else is paying to finance your retirement.



I am sure that it is.

It was not your father's "smart investments" that provided him with security, it was the government's largess. Gaurentee my employment for life and I too will be able to make "smart" investments. One of these days you are going to have to stand on your own and stop citing daddy as your example. How is your retirement plan looking?


My retirement plan has been in motion since the day I left college. I have a running 401K, along with 2 Roth IRA's that I have already been putting in to for 10 years. In order to contribute the max every year, I go without crap like new plasma TV's, pontoon boats, and a new car every 2 years. It's not that hard, junior. Maybe you should look more than 10 minutes ahead sometime in your life

Oh yeah.......I also noticed you didn't have a damn thing in the world to say about my other friend from the private sector. Cat got your tongue?

I did not ask what your contribution level was. That means nothing. What is your projected principle and rate of return at retirement. If you don't know, you don't have a retirement plan. You are just hoping for the best, not planning.

I can already tell by the fact that you think $87,000/yr in a private sector job is pure bliss that you are in for a rude awakening.

Unless you follow in daddy's footsteps and suck at the public teat.

With respect to your daddy's friend in the private sector. You indicated he worked at the same company for 30+ years and had a pension. I don't too many people these days with either lifetime employment or a pension. Unless you can cite a current example you are talking about what was not what is.

Clearly you are used to being a ward of the state. Your entire premise seems to be built around lifetime employment and COLA raises. Neither of these exist outside of government employment.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but as I've moved up, so has my salary. I started low when I started out, now my qualifications speak for a much higher paycheck then they did when I was 25. I have also NEVER left a company at the same salary I was hired at.

Indeed, you left when they cut your salary to zero.

You are correct your record of having NEVER left a company at your initial salary is quite safe. I just would not brag that much about the fact.

Of course, you don't have that luxury in the airline industry, but that is entirely of your own doing. YOU wanted a seniority based, hourly wage type compensation package, and you got it. YOU wanted people to start at the bottom from day 1 and you got it. Most any other industry, and in 91 and 135 flying experience demands compensation. You made your bed, now you sleep in it. You started down this path X number of years ago, claimed you knew what you were getting in to, and now you're whining about where you are. Not my damn problem. You don't like it? Change it. Change careers.

Where is it I was complaining about either the seniority system or the airline compensation system?

As a privately employed taxpayer, boy do I know that it's my problem.



If you have guaranteed lifetime employment, healthcare and a pension then perhaps. Unfortunately these conditions do not exist in the real world.

They do and they don't.....honestly it's a matter of luck. But, if you're smart, you can take steps to insure that when luck isn't with you, good planning is going to be something to fall back on.....a concept lost on most of you. My uncle worked for the same individual for 30 years flying a Citation single pilot. He's retired and happy now, and his boss was a good man that took care of him. I'd bet any amount of money you wouldn't have lasted 2 years there because you'd be demanding, whiny, and untrusting, always assuming that the big bad rich man was out to get you. So sad.

Again, from where do you infer any of your above prognosticating?

Why not? It sounds great. According to you contract guys can earn more than I can. Why leave that gravy train?

Explained that in my last post. Again LEARN TO READ PLEASE.

Ah yes the part where you said you are the type who needs "a regular paycheck." How is that working out for you?

In case you have not noticed there is no such thing as a guarantee that you will be paid every two weeks. (government employment excepted.)

Your arguments belay your true feelings. You seem to think that salaries will go up on their own. (As someone who was raised under government employment I can see how you would come to this conclusion.)

They won't. They need to be driven up and statements like "flying is the easiest job in the world 90% of the time" will never result in that happening.

So, basically, I need to lie, right?

If you really believe that flying is mostly effortless and that the chief requirements are the ability to order a drink and play golf then who am I to argue that pilots are not grossly overpaid.

Then again you came of age in a time when easy, fast advancement was the way of the world in aviation. You probably don't even know what carrying an airplane means. (i.e. you are a punk kid, in case you could not read between the lines.)

I like my job very much and think the guys who spend every flight bitching are a waste of space.

That is not what we are talking about however. We are talking about what is an appropriate statement to either the press, outsiders or management.

Sullinberger did a good job during his testimony to Congress. He did not talk of unicorns, rainbows and magic takeoffs. That does not mean he bitches about his job constantly.



You still don't get it but I hope you oneday do.


There's only one of us here that doesn't get it, and it's not me. God help your kids if you have any.

So you believe that instead of testifying as he did, Sullenberger should have opined that he loved flying airplanes, considered himself extremely lucky that he was doing a job that the rest of the world would kill to do and that everybody would be crazy not to want to be an airline pilot where they could experience magical takeoffs, play golf on overnights and imbibe umbrella covered drinks.