Adam A500....why?

[JimNtexas]

Is that with the ballistic chute discount?

I think that includes the ballaistic chute surcharge.

Cirrus guys assure me that the airplane is far safer than any other single, but I have to wonder about it. Why are premiums for the Cirrus so much more than for a Mooney or Cardinal RG, which run around $3000/year?

Maybe its just that's what guys will pay to fly a nice new airplane.

 

[clickclickboom]

I think that includes the ballaistic chute surcharge.

Cirrus guys assure me that the airplane is far safer than any other single, but I have to wonder about it. Why are premiums for the Cirrus so much more than for a Mooney or Cardinal RG, which run around $3000/year?

Maybe its just that's what guys will pay to fly a nice new airplane.

Because low time pilots fly into a cloud get scared and pop the chute.. I remember watching CNN about 3 years ago.. A guy had an engine failure and popped the chute. On the TV they had some resident expert talking about the harrowing experience he had while flying along and his rt aileron had jammed or something.. He still had the opposite aileron, rudder, and elevator he tooted his horn about his decision to pull the chute on an otherwise completely flyable aircraft

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Because low time pilots fly into a cloud get scared and pop the chute.. I remember watching CNN about 3 years ago.. A guy had an engine failure and popped the chute. On the TV they had some resident expert talking about the harrowing experience he had while flying along and his rt aileron had jammed or something.. He still had the opposite aileron, rudder, and elevator he tooted his horn about his decision to pull the chute on an otherwise completely flyable aircraft

Ever try flying an airplane with a fluttering control surface? If I had a parachute I'd pull it too.

Just recently had controls foul up in a C-560 and wish to god I had a red or yellow/black handle to pull.

Things sorted out however:

Had it been "real" where we were out of options and our options were either:

1.) attempt to land at night/imc with an airplane that's already betrayed you

or

2.) punch out and float to the ground.

I'd take #2 thanks.

Also...that guy had just had maintenance done on the aircraft. The aileron was not attached properly and fluttered. He did the right thing, but sucks for the insurance company. Your other points are exactly what a disoriented pilot's supposed to do. If they get into a cloud...pull the handle.

If you for any reason get into a spin...the only demonstrated and approved recovery technique is to pull the handle.

I'd prefer them take a flyable airplane gently under canopy to the ground and have everyone walk away than take a flyable airplane in a spiral into the ground killing everyone on board.

 

[clickclickboom]

Ever try flying an airplane with a fluttering control surface? If I had a parachute I'd pull it too.

Just recently had controls foul up in a C-560 and wish to god I had a red or yellow/black handle to pull.

Things sorted out however:

Had it been "real" where we were out of options and our options were either:

1.) attempt to land at night/imc with an airplane that's already betrayed you

or

2.) punch out and float to the ground.

I'd take #2 thanks.

Also...that guy had just had maintenance done on the aircraft. The aileron was not attached properly and fluttered. He did the right thing, but sucks for the insurance company. Your other points are exactly what a disoriented pilot's supposed to do. If they get into a cloud...pull the handle.

If you for any reason get into a spin...the only demonstrated and approved recovery technique is to pull the handle.

I'd prefer them take a flyable airplane gently under canopy to the ground and have everyone walk away than take a flyable airplane in a spiral into the ground killing everyone on board.

Which is exactly the reason why insurance on the Cirrus will continue to be out of sight..

In my opinion if you fly into a cloud and get a little spatial disorientation you should do what you learned and fly your instruments not punch out..

if you are not IFR rated you should take an extra 3 mins and look at the radar and choose to fly or not instead of the crutch of a " Golden Parachute"

Dont get me wrong the concept is amazing but the problem is that pilots are buying these planes and using the chute as an excuse for skill..

Had a guy at my airport bend one up on landing. He went out on a day where there was a frontal passage and winds were gusting 20-30kts direct xwind.. Did three go arounds and ground looped the thing damaging the gear and wing. The faa asked him why he flew and he replied that he decidied to fly that day because if he couldnt get it on the ground he would just pull the chute.

 

[clickclickboom]

I think that includes the ballaistic chute surcharge.

Cirrus guys assure me that the airplane is far safer than any other single, but I have to wonder about it. Why are premiums for the Cirrus so much more than for a Mooney or Cardinal RG, which run around $3000/year?

Maybe its just that's what guys will pay to fly a nice new airplane.

Read an interesting article about aircraft insurance in flying or one of the other mags a year or so ago..

They took a single enging guy with decent time say 1000 hrs some retract and an instrument rating. They compared actual quotes on a Cessna 182, Mooney Ovation, and Cirrus SR22

The quotes were something like $3000 for the 182, $8000 for the Mooney and $16,000 for the Cirrus !!!!

 

[Magic1872]

Isn't insurance based on hual value?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Isn't insurance based on hual value?

Well it is based on hull value, yes. That is why a new SR22 is going to cost more to insure than a used Cardinal RG. Of course, there is also the issue of residual values and market history, etc. Cirrus' insurance premiums will come down over the next 5 to 10 years according to one agent I talked to.

-Neal

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Which is exactly the reason why insurance on the Cirrus will continue to be out of sight..

In my opinion if you fly into a cloud and get a little spatial disorientation you should do what you learned and fly your instruments not punch out..

if you are not IFR rated you should take an extra 3 mins and look at the radar and choose to fly or not instead of the crutch of a " Golden Parachute"

Dont get me wrong the concept is amazing but the problem is that pilots are buying these planes and using the chute as an excuse for skill..

Had a guy at my airport bend one up on landing. He went out on a day where there was a frontal passage and winds were gusting 20-30kts direct xwind.. Did three go arounds and ground looped the thing damaging the gear and wing. The faa asked him why he flew and he replied that he decidied to fly that day because if he couldnt get it on the ground he would just pull the chute.

as far as insurance being more than say a 182 there are 2 main reasons.

Statistics and Value. The 182 is a proven airframe with a set accident rate that the actuaries can base their rates on and pretty much take to the bank. The cirrus fleet is still new, relatively small and its growing.

The second, value, is that the cirrus simply is a very expensive airplane. Take expensive airplanes and spread the cost of replacing an unknown number of them for a relatively small fleet and you're always going to have a high premium.

The numbers quoted above seem way out of whack. My former employer was a 100hr private pilot with a fresh brand new instrument rating. He was quoted I think $6,000/yr for insurance and it was about $2000/yr for a newer 182 with a pretty high hull value as 182s go.

For grins I got a quote for myself and the cirrus was still something lke $4500/yr through I think AOPA. There are other companies out there but its going to cost regardless.



As far as giving up because you've got a parachute I don't think that's the case. It's instinctive for a pilot to want to stay with the airplane but the parachute has a limited deployment envelope. Off the top of my head I think it's something like 135kts. Hardly going to do you any good in a graveyard spiral. Again that's the "demonstrated" capability but beyond much more I don't think it'd do much good. The SR22-G2 cruises an honest 185kts. Point the nose down in a spiral and pop the chute...you're going to rip it off or at least take the attach points if it doesn't go.

It's actually better to pull it at the first sign of trouble than to let it develop into something you're probably not going to get out of. Once you've flown poorly enough to get into a spiral how likely are you going to be to fly well enough to get out?

 

[Lear60Guy]

I just finished reading an article in Twin & Turbine magazine on the new A500 and wondered what the reasoning would be to spend $1M for a new concept airplane that doesn't do anything better than my C340 (w/Ram VI's) does at 1/3 the cost.

something new and different, if you show up on the ramp in a 340 even a really nice one, it won't turn many heads, but an A500 at least for a while will have people looking... planes are a status symbol just like cars, the rich folk like things that are new and different...