Actual Combat

[CX880]

Do most mil pilots never see any actual combat? Besides an actual war, what determines your ability to be sent to actual combat?

 

[deadstick]

In general, if you are in the military, you can go. Some are not medically qualified to deploy, but I doubt they're on flight status, either.

 

[Huggyu2]

...what determines your ability to be sent to actual combat?

Mainly what squadron you're assigned to. When a conflict occurs, certain units are picked to accomplish the mission. If you're fortunate enough to be in that squadron, you'll probably see some action when the time comes.

 

[AlbieF15]

You never know....

A regular board poster here (not me!) Shot down a Mirage as wingman in the Gulf War...on his first tour. Another friend, who was a WIC IP, waited 17 years until he was a Squadron CC to even get to fly in the container doing "combat" while maintaining no fly zones.

Those guys who choose "sissy" planes like transports in your UPT class may be in fact flying into harms way dodging SAMs and AAA regularly, while your "manly" fighter is circling the states doing Operation Noble Eagle Caps or going to Red Flag far from any real danger. The point is...you never know. You train to be ready, and ANY weapon system can find itself on the battlefield somewhere.

 

[Fins Up]

Good point. My big fat slow P-3 was shot at several times. We ain't exactly going to outrun much.

 

[dtfl]

You never know....

A regular board poster here (not me!) Shot down a Mirage as wingman in the Gulf War...on his first tour. Another friend, who was a WIC IP, waited 17 years until he was a Squadron CC to even get to fly in the container doing "combat" while maintaining no fly zones.

Those guys who choose "sissy" planes like transports in your UPT class may be in fact flying into harms way dodging SAMs and AAA regularly, while your "manly" fighter is circling the states doing Operation Noble Eagle Caps or going to Red Flag far from any real danger. The point is...you never know. You train to be ready, and ANY weapon system can find itself on the battlefield somewhere.

True words, my friend.

I have lost friends and coworkers flying C130s and small, single engine prop planes....helicopters.....pretty much everyone except Trainers and C21s and that new 737-700 will be subject to combat flying. Well...I doubt the N Asset aircraft will be close to the shooting..but they'll be near it.

 

[DLax85]

.....pretty much everyone except Trainers and C21s and that new 737-700 will be subject to combat flying.

Actually you'd be surprised where "that new 737-700" has already been tasked to fly....let's just say defensive manuevers are being developed, test flown and validated....and defensive systems are being installed on many of the blue-n-whites.

 

[tomgoodman]

Not combat, but....

Years ago, an NKC-135 crew reported having been "straddled" by debris while photographing re-entry vehicles in the South Pacific. No hits, or they might have become the only airplane ever shot down by an ICBM!

 

[ExAF]

Golden BB

Years ago, an NKC-135 crew reported having been "straddled" by debris while photographing re-entry vehicles in the South Pacific. No hits, or they might have become the only airplane ever shot down by an ICBM!

Talk about the proverbial "golden BB!"

 

[pkober]

Actually you'd be surprised where "that new 737-700" has already been tasked to fly....let's just say defensive manuevers are being developed, test flown and validated....and defensive systems are being installed on many of the blue-n-whites.

That should keep the AMC remf's out of the airplane.

I guess all they will have left to fly then is the gliders at the Zoo.:nuts:

 

[Afterprop]

So what is the mission of the new 737-700 . . . ? Mil designation?
Thanks,
'Props

 

[DLax85]

So what is the mission of the new 737-700 . . . ? Mil designation?
Thanks,
'Props

DV airlift out of Hickam (1 acft), Ramstein (1 acft) and Andrews (ultimately 4 acft)

Hickam acft primarily supports COMPACOM and COMPACAF on world-wide DV missions, but has been tasked for even higher level DV movement.

Ramstein support is similar for European Commander.

Andrews birds are part of the 89th fleet and get tasked with virtually any DV flying, but have done a lot of middle east support since coming on board....they also fly/"back up" highest level PAG missions.

Military designation = C-40

Sweet ride --- all glass, left-seat HUD, Cat III, autothrottle/autoland, VNAV, RNAV, typically flown with 3 pilots, 2 radio operatiors, 2-4 flight attendants and 2 crew cheifs due to ETOPS requirements.

Hickam bird carries 26 pax max, with max crew size of 13....extra gas tanks in the belly provide very long range. Routinely flys Hickam to Andrews non-stop, but typically can't make it back without a refueling stop on the west coast due to winds.

Longest missin I flew was a 10.5 from Germany to Kansas --- but I believe the Hickam record a few years ago was an 11.0

 

[Fins Up]

So what is the mission of the new 737-700 . . . ? Mil designation?
Thanks,
'Props

The Navy is slowly replacing the C-9's with 737's known as C-40A's. The Navy is also supposed to replace the P-3 Orion with 737's. They will be known as "MMA" or Multi-Mission Maritime Aircraft. Don't know if the letter/number designation has been established yet. Hopefully the funding won't get cut.

 

[Birdstrike]

Do most mil pilots never see any actual combat?

CX, over there, every time they're shot at, whether transitioning on an approach or picking it up from a hover, they're seeing actual combat.

 

[Deuce130]

CX, over there, every time they're shot at, whether transitioning on an approach or picking it up from a hover, they're seeing actual combat.

I would actually change that defiition a little. Officially, the AF determines what is combat time and what isn't. Currently, any flights over the airspace of Iraq, Afghanistan, and, I think, Pakistan, is considered Combat time. As far as actual combat, I'd say the the threat of being shot at is what should be considered actual combat. In the entire time I flew over there, I was only "shot at," as in directly engaged by someone trying to shoot my aircraft down specifically, with a decent chance of actually doing so, twice. However, I'd say that I've been in actual combat more than just those two instances. It gets kind of weird sometimes, with all of the chest thumping in the military (esp AFSOC) about who and who hasn't been in combat, who did more, who deserved what medal, who had the more dangerous job, who's been shot at, blah blah blah. Gets kind of old sometimes.

 

[SIG600]

I think as a general rule of thumb, if it's grey (or P-3 white), you're eligible to be shot at. Regardless of what you fly. I had someone try to tell me tanker guys shouldn't log combat time the other day. I wanted to scream.

 

[pkober]

I would actually change that defiition a little. Officially, the AF determines what is combat time and what isn't. Currently, any flights over the airspace of Iraq, Afghanistan, and, I think, Pakistan, is considered Combat time. As far as actual combat, I'd say the the threat of being shot at is what should be considered actual combat. In the entire time I flew over there, I was only "shot at," as in directly engaged by someone trying to shoot my aircraft down specifically, with a decent chance of actually doing so, twice. However, I'd say that I've been in actual combat more than just those two instances. It gets kind of weird sometimes, with all of the chest thumping in the military (esp AFSOC) about who and who hasn't been in combat, who did more, who deserved what medal, who had the more dangerous job, who's been shot at, blah blah blah. Gets kind of old sometimes.

Give me a break Deuce, Only shot at twice! You did low levels out of Little Rock. You probably go shot at on every flight by some drunk redneck in his beat up 1992 Chevy pick up truck.:laugh:

 

[Vandal]

After my first desert tour right out of Little Rock I had more combat time than regular time in the Herk. Off course a lot of that time is droning on the way in and out, but it still sounds cool...

As far as getting shot at I only saw incoming once, and even that was questionable...It's amazing, somehow the insurgents know only to shoot at active duty airplanes! Any guard/reserve guy who has sat through an OIF/OEF intel brief knows what I'm talking about.

 

[pkober]

It's hard to get medals if you've never been shot at, plus if you only do one tour you have to have some stories to tell back at home.

 

[SIG600]

It's hard to get medals if you've never been shot at, plus if you only do one tour you have to have some stories to tell back at home.

Are you kidding? The Air Force gives medals/ribbons just for going through training.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I think as a general rule of thumb, if it's grey (or P-3 white), you're eligible to be shot at. Regardless of what you fly. I had someone try to tell me tanker guys shouldn't log combat time the other day. I wanted to scream.

I'm convinced my 780 hours of tanker combat time is what got me hired at UPS a few years ago. I spent 20 minutes answering questions about what I did. My interviewer was a former Vietnam War C-141 combat pilot and we had some similar stories.

It's a little bit bogus that the guys flying overhead BGD at FL270 tonight are logging combat time. On paper it looks no different than the combat AR we did 4 years ago this week while being shot at. We had percussion airbursts that were so close it knocked the autopilots offline. But out of 780 hours, maybe 50 were actual combat. I got 8 Air Medals that I am ashamed to have when I hear some other stories. The C-17 pilot who recovered and safely landed after taking a MANPAD got an Air Medal.

It was hilarious the first week of OIF when they sent tankers into Iraq, but would not let the F-15C's go with us. They were sent back to Kadena because they were of no use in OIF. It's much more likely for a tanker/transport to get shot at in OIF/OEF than it is a fighter.

 

[pkober]

Are you kidding? The Air Force gives medals/ribbons just for going through training.

Bronze star's are hard to justify while flying around a MOA. However, if your a O-5 or above in even the smallest command position you can almost be assured that you will get a bronze star in OEF/OIF, if deployed.

That's why todays bronze star without the "V" is a medal that makes people roll there eyes.

 

[Fury220]

I'm convinced my 780 hours of tanker combat time is what got me hired at UPS a few years ago. I spent 20 minutes answering questions about what I did. My interviewer was a former Vietnam War C-141 combat pilot and we had some similar stories.

It's a little bit bogus that the guys flying overhead BGD at FL270 tonight are logging combat time. On paper it looks no different than the combat AR we did 4 years ago this week while being shot at. We had percussion airbursts that were so close it knocked the autopilots offline. But out of 780 hours, maybe 50 were actual combat. I got 8 Air Medals that I am ashamed to have when I hear some other stories. The C-17 pilot who recovered and safely landed after taking a MANPAD got an Air Medal.

It was hilarious the first week of OIF when they sent tankers into Iraq, but would not let the F-15C's go with us. They were sent back to Kadena because they were of no use in OIF. It's much more likely for a tanker/transport to get shot at in OIF/OEF than it is a fighter.

Brother, I was right with ya until the very last sentence of your post.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Brother, I was right with ya until the very last sentence of your post.

FAIP. 'nuff said.

 

[JungleJett]

Brother, I was right with ya until the very last sentence of your post.

It is a FACT that can be easily proved.

AFurry...as for the F-15C's in theater. There were some with us at "undisclosed" location and they left at the end of April 2003. We thought it odd but since we had air supremacy, I guess they figured they were not needed. They had a banner above their MX hangar that read "When Gorilla's Fly, MiG's Die" it looked a little tattered so we assumed it was from the first Gulf War when the Iraqi AF actually got some airplanes airborne. From what I remember, there was a not a single aircraft launched by the Iraqi's. So I guess the F-15's can take partial credit for that along with their other brethren.

We had a running joke that the banner should say "When Gorilla's fly, boomer's get practice" Nothing but love for those that fly on high. we depended more on the much loved Hog for our escort.

 

[RedDogC130]

Brother, I was right with ya until the very last sentence of your post.

Stick to AETC. When you get to fly something other than a trainer, then you will get it.

 

[Afterprop]

Thanks to the guys who provided the info about the mil 737s . . . must be a nice gig, if you can get it ;-) Or maybe not . . . as for me, I enjoyed my tours with the Herk, overseas, and at the schoolhouse . . . although I HATED AETC and what they tried to do/did to Herk training . . .
'Props

 

[Fury220]

It is a FACT that can be easily proved.

AFurry...as for the F-15C's in theater. There were some with us at "undisclosed" location and they left at the end of April 2003. We thought it odd but since we had air supremacy, I guess they figured they were not needed. They had a banner above their MX hangar that read "When Gorilla's Fly, MiG's Die" it looked a little tattered so we assumed it was from the first Gulf War when the Iraqi AF actually got some airplanes airborne. From what I remember, there was a not a single aircraft launched by the Iraqi's. So I guess the F-15's can take partial credit for that along with their other brethren.

We had a running joke that the banner should say "When Gorilla's fly, boomer's get practice" Nothing but love for those that fly on high. we depended more on the much loved Hog for our escort.

I'm not arguing that point. Maybe when ya'll are saying "fighters" you really mean to be saying "F-15Cs."

When I say "fighters," what I really mean in this context is "A-10s, F-16s, F-15Es, and Hornets."


...but I'll step outta this so you fellas can play oookie cookie by yourselves. Enjoy!

 

[JungleJett]

I'm not arguing that point. Maybe when ya'll are saying "fighters" you really mean to be saying "F-15Cs."

When I say "fighters," what I really mean in this context is "A-10s, F-16s, F-15Es, and Hornets."


...but I'll step outta this so you fellas can play oookie cookie by yourselves. Enjoy!

Actually, the second part of my post was in agreement with Lil' Seinfeld and not you. That was my bad.

When he said fighters, I would assume he meant all the airplanes you listed. What he said about tankers/transports getting shot at more, a simple fact and not opinion, and again, easily proved. Not that getting shot at makes you any cooler. Now, plug in Afghanistan and the see what you get.

 

[dtfl]

It's hard to get medals if you've never been shot at, plus if you only do one tour you have to have some stories to tell back at home.

WHAT?!?!?!? What about all the senior NCOs (SMSGts and CMSGTs) that deploy to the rear and ride our *sses about reflective belts and haircuts just so they can get a Bronze Star to hang on their wall after retirement?

Or the idiot SF Sgt who gave a WG CC a SPEEDING ticket in Iraq when he was speeding around the perimeter to head out to one of his airplanes (Id speed around a fence in Iraq too - too easy of a target) I bet that kid got a medal.

I todays AF were the AF I was looking at in the late 80s I would have never joined.