Active Duty AF

[highflying]

Could someone tell me about the family life of a pilot that is active duty. How often will a person move that is on AD for 10 year period. In the movies they always make it sound like the family of an Air Force or Army guy is moving around like a million times. Also what are some of the good and bad stuff that comes with being a military pilot (family life). I am going to be taking the AFOQT soon and am keeping my fingures crossed that I do good on it. I am all for going military AD but need to talk the wife into it, she only looks at the bad parts of the military (like being away from family if deployed). Any help would be great thanks

 

[av8raaron]

The various phases of training (UPT, FTU, IFF if applicable, etc.) take around two years give or take. Those will probably be your shortest assignments. Typical assignments run between 2 years, 10 months and 3 years, six months - AFPC likes to move you at an even three years. You will be gone on deployments, exercises, and the like every now and then. With no more OSW/ONW, deployments will certainly change from what they have been in the past decade. The Air Force would like to get back on to following the EAF concept (one major deployment per 15 month cycle) more closely, but only time will tell how this plays out.

 

[Toro]

How often will a person move that is on AD for 10 year period

It depends on what you fly, where you live, where you are in your career and what branch of the military you're in. When you start out in UPT, you'll do that for a year, then move to your FTU base your a year, then go to your operational squadron - three moves in about as many years. Once you're through with that, Air Force guys in general remain stationed at the same place for three years at a time. Single guys at my current station have a DEROS (when they leave) of two years while married guys are three years and both have the option of extending if they desire. So in a 10 year period, I would estimate that the average pilot moves 3-4 times.

In the movies they always make it sound like the family of an Air Force or Army guy is moving around like a million times.

Yeah, well in the movies fighter pilots can fly inverted 10 feet above enemy aircraft while snapping Polaroids.

. Also what are some of the good and bad stuff that comes with being a military pilot (family life)

Good
- Health benefits (inexpensive health care and insurance)
- Housing is generally safer than the local population when you live on base
- Spouse social groups (in fighter squadrons)
Those are sort of broad examples, there are numerous little specific details that are a good deal from the military, stuff like tax-free purchases fromt he commissary and BX, discounted trips and items through the services squadron, etc.

Bad
- Being deployed. This will vary depending on your duty station and what type of aircraft you fly. Instructors at UPT or FTU don't (usually) deploy. On the other hand, I know more than a couple people who have been deployed more than they've been at home in the last year with all that's been going on.
- Moving around. This really isn't much of a problem for adults, but more for the kids. You're not going to have any problem with moving around because your new squadron will be your social group, as will the spouses for your wife. Kids are a little different, harder to adjust to changing schools, etc.

she only looks at the bad parts of the military

Whatever you do, make sure she is 100% on board with what you do and fully realizes what that encompasses (like being deployed).

 

[Bill Mostellar]

I am going to be taking the AFOQT soon and am keeping my fingures crossed that I do good on it.

For starters, you must do WELL on it, not good. Good is for the Navy. ;>

 

[Bill Mostellar]

Could someone tell me about the family life of a pilot that is active duty[?] How often will a person move that is on AD for 10 year period[?] In the movies they always make it sound like the family of an Air Force or Army guy is moving around like a million times. Also what are some of the good and bad stuff that comes with being a military pilot (family life)[?] I am going to be taking the AFOQT soon and am keeping my fingures crossed that I do good on it. I am all for going military AD but need to talk the wife into it, she only looks at the bad parts of the military (like being away from family if deployed). Any help would be great thanks

Now that I've alienated all the English Majors (see my previous post)...

Your time away from home depends on the type of aircraft you fly: fighters are deployed for months at a time while transports are gone for week(s) at a time. C-12's and C-21's fly two to four day mission, but trainers are home most every night.

The best part about being an Air Force family is that you can live on base with 100's of folks just like yourself - our neighbors from Active Duty are still some of our best friends. We shared the same challenges and thrills. Our kids climbed on the roof together and hid when they thought I was flying over in the pattern. You can't duplicate that in the civilian world.

The worst part is you'll have to leave these friends every three to four years. However, every time you talk on the phone, email, or get together, the bond is still there. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Do your best on the AFOQT, get a pilot slot, then decide. Once you've made it past all those hurdles (4,000 to 1 odds last time I checked), have your wife email mine and get the inside scoop. She'll tell her the same things I've told you.

I wish you success!

 

[Tweetdrvr]

It all depends on what you are driving

The airlift community offers you some of the following benefits.

If you go special ops 130s, you will probably be gone quite often. We have to wait to see what happens after this Iraq thing settles down and what else happens in the "War on Terror." But I'll let the drivers of those specific types of Herks weigh in on that.

UPT is a year, Little Rock C-130 school is about 4-5 months long. The guys that get stationed at US Bases like Little Rock, Dyess and Pope are gone at least once a year for 90-120 days. The desert deployment is not gonna be over for the Herk for a long time. It may not be in Prince Sultan AB in the Kingdom of Saudi, but as long as the army has boots on the ground over there, there will be a C-130 intra-theater airlift requirement. But once every other year, there is the great ongoing Bosnia/Kosovo mission flown out of Ramstein AB, Germany. Lots of people have their spouses come over for that one, and take in Europe on their days off. Speaking of Germany, if you get Ramstein, you won't deploy for the desert but if anything on CNN is going on in Africa, pack your bags. The beauty of Ramstein is there is enough airlift requirement to Bosnia to make sure you get the tax free check every month you live there and most of all you are in Europe. The cultural advantages to chucking your kids into German schools and having German neighbors are just immeasurable.

Big airlifters like the C-17 and C-5 don't deploy all that often, and when they do, it will most likely be the C-17 guys, because they are really a big C-130. Both airframes get lots of trips that may range anywhere from a week to two weeks on the road. If you are on the east coast, expect lots of Europe, and on the west coast, expect lots of Pacific Asia trips. They all have enough room in the cargo hold for you to bring home lots of Air Mobility Command treasures to decorate your house and make amends with your spouse, and they usually get paid for with your per-diem left over money. Per-diem is money you would not have had in the first place, so you should spend it accordingly--eat well overseas--don't do the Burger King/BX food court and beer in your room, and shop well.

Everything everyone else said about friendships, close ties, and benefits is true. Your spouse will only be alone if she chooses to alienate, but that is hard to do. People will drag her in and make her feel welcome. What can your wife do to make the transition easier? Get involved with the other spouses. My wife said if she had known what she was getting into, she would have gotten her teaching certificate. Teachers and medical type fields such as nursing, dental hygienist, physician assistant can usually find jobs in any community where there is a base. Overseas might be a little tougher, but who would work when you have to see Europe.

The worst year is probably the first year. Contrary to popular belief, you come to flight school to study, and to learn how to study new flight rules, new systems and take it all in, in a short amount of time. You do not party like college, no going out on Thursday or Sundays, and surprisingly do very little flying compared to operational pilots. Your wife will definitely not like your 12 hour days, followed by another few hours of study in the evenings after work, and unless you are from extremely small town USA, she probably won't like the location of most of the USAF training bases. I have actually sat around and argued over whose small town mall was better, Enid, Del Rio, or Columbus. When that first year is over, you'll look back and think, wow what a great time that was and am I glad it is over.

You will very rarely find anyone who will say bad about their airplane. Because regardless of what we fly, very few pilots in the AF suffer from airplane envy. Call it the "My jet is always better than your jet" syndrome. Each new plane is fun in its own way. I love the Herk, but it is hard for me to think about going back to trips on the road, getting good beer direct from the Germans, and having a toilet and air-conditioned flight deck, when I get to go upside down and fly in formation nearly every week. And I have to let the person next to me try to kill me while they learn to fly, and I sweat bullets before the first engine is started. Every assignment is what you make of it, some people make more of some assignments than do others.

Now that I have said all that for active duty, have you considered the ANG/Reserve? If you are older, your wife is established in her career or is in school to have a career, or you want to stay close to home while you serve, the reserve components are the way to go. You know what you will fly before you go to UPT. You won't move unless you change units which doesn't happen too often. The deployments will be shorter (at least in airlift world).

Good luck and fly safe.

 

[Steeler Fan]

Lifestyle

You will no doubt make some of your closest friends while on Active Duty. Even though I'm not on Active Duty now, we continue to keep in close contact with several AF Families.

Living on base made it very easy for my wife to adjust to each new assignment. The vast majority (95%) of AF Families are incredibly understanding and eager to welcome new families to the base, to the neighborhood, to the squadron (fighter squadrons have a GREAT reputation in this area, but heavy and trainer squadrons are also good this way).


One of the best assignments for family stability is teaching JSUPT (Joint Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training). You are home most every night (with a few weekend cross country trips being the exception). The days are long, but the flying is good, there's lots of it, and you're kids get to see you alot (which sounds like it would be good for you and your wife).

The 10 year commitment seems like a long time--until it's almost over, then you'll wonder "how did those years go by so fast?"

The more concessions the airlines take, the more attractive the Air Force benefits look!

Best wishes and Do WELL on your AFOQT! Make sure you get the prep books and study before you take the test. A marginal score can really hurt your application.

 

[highflying]

I always seem to hear that a Guard spot is the best way to go if you are lucky enough to get a spot in a Guard. Eveyone always says the same positive things like you will be at one base and you know the Aircraft you are going to fly and all that stuff. My question I guess is how does deployment and flying in the ANG work. How often will a person flying in the ANG be deployed and how long does that normally last (when not at war).

 

[Goose17]

Guard!

highflying.

I flew spec ops 130s on active duty. I got out in 01'. While I enjoyed what I did, having to do it all over again, I think the Guard would have been a much better option. When I joined the Air Force, I wanted to go 20 years and retire. I had dreams of becoming a colonel or general and making it a nice long career. Once I was through UPT and into the "real" Air Force, I started to realize that maybe 20 years wasn't for me. When I joined, I had no plans to fly commercially, but now I fly for Fed Ex. Flying for a major airline can be a darn good way to make a living, if you can survive any furlough years. That being said, your focus now, as it should be, is flying in the military. Active duty has a lot of appeal. You are employed, with health care, housing, support structure and you have a possiblity to see a large chunk of this world. However, you will be locked in for the next 11 years (if they haven't changed the commitment). The guard can either be full time, or part time if you so desire. There is nothing that prevents you from pursuing another career parallel to your guard duty as well. If you or your wife don't want to move too often, or want to be by family, pick a guard unit that is close and try to make it work.

I hope the above is not a big "anti-active duty/pro-guard", because that is not my intent. Like I said, I did 9 years active in special ops and really enjoyed it. However, if I knew then that I was going to end up flying commercially at some, I could have gone guard and got here much sooner.

Explore your options. Check into the guard, talk with ROTC reps, and academy reps. Pick guys brains, but take into account the whole picture, not just what 1 schmuck like me says. Make a decision that is best for you AND your wife.

Good luck!

Goose17

 

[Tweetdrvr]

First, here is a link to a very good discussion on how the whole UPT thing works if you have not been doing a lot of reading lately.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16939

Second, here is a rewrite and edit of some of my answers from about four different threads from the past that should help you.

How do I get a full time slot in the Guard/Reserves or do I want full time employment?

It depends.

A little clarification on the Reserve assignment system. You can be assigned to a reserve unit as a member of the active air force. You still belong to active duty, they pay you, and you get another assignment at the end of your 3-4 years, unless you are separating from that assignment. Right now the 130 pilot system is a little over on new pilots, so guys from Corpus T-44 track are getting this good deal as their first assignment. You can leave active duty and go to the reserves early, but it comes at a price. This process is called Palace Chase. You agree to extend your commitment by some multiple, but serve it in the reserves. This is because you are no longer considered a full time servant and they want to get something close to the same amount of productivity out of you. Right now, if pilots can get released, the commitment is tripled. (It might be double for Navs) So if a pilot gets out 3 yrs early, he/she now must serve 9 more years in the reserves.

There are three types of slots in the ANG/Reserve: AGR, ART, and Traditional Reserve. AGRs are on active duty orders and are basically the same as regular air force. They are just getting paid by the reserves, and almost never get PCS'd and earn retirement the same as the active duty. ART (Air Reserve Technicians) are civil servants on the GS pay scale. Both of these don't come easy to someone walking into the unit just off active duty or straight out of flight school. Usually they go to people who have been around a while. These people are there everyday; and run the unit, take care of training requirements, and get airline guys recurrent when they have been away on vacation or at their real jobs for long periods of time. Everyone else is called a traditional reservist. These are the often mislabeled "weekend warriors." You only get paid when you work. I won't go into the pay system because that alone is a separate novel. I will say as an aircrew in this busy world where the reserve component makes up over 40% of the airlift/tanker force, you can make plenty of $$ doing this and not have another job. This is called "bumming" in the guard and "troughing" in the reserves. Budget plan for 50% of what an active duty person at your paygrade earns, and expect to earn 75%. If a unit is short handed they may reduce the pay grade on one of the civil servant slots and put a young guy into a scheduler type position that doesn't require an instructor pilot/nav. Ask if you are interested, because you never know what may come your way.

A lot of people coming off active duty not understanding the pay system, think they want full time jobs for the security. But they really torque the leadership if they sold them on why they should hired full time, without revealing intentions to seek airline employment. It takes a hard sell to walk into a full time slot from outside the unit, and they must really need somebody to fill that slot if they are willing to take an outsider. So using that job to hold you over, then blindsiding the leadership with two weeks notice after obtaining an airline job is not cool.

Some people like what they did on active duty and want full time jobs, but don't what to move anymore so a full time reserve job offers that.

Some people take military leave after they get hired by an airline and finish probation for a 3 year full time AGR(Active Guard Reserve) tour or ART job with the reserves, because they make more money at their current military salary than the first couple of years at their company. They go back to their company with a better schedule due to higher seniority, equal or better pay, and did not sacrifice as much precious family time.

There are people who like the traditional reserve position. They can run their own business, if they are not airline guys. They love military flying and aren't ready to give it up, but want to do something else in life. Unemployed guys seeking employment can control their lives while spending time with the family, but keep current in flying and pay the bills. (I recently took a six week vacation to do spring chores and spend time with the family) A flyer can make 75% take home (with per deim from TDYs included, if they don't spend it all) of what a person on active duty at the same rank makes just in regular pay with no TDYs. Personally, I budget plan for 50%, so I don't extend myself or get into a position of really needing that last trip that always seemed to get cancelled.

Some of this depends on family situations. People with families need health care. If their spouse doesn't work or get a good health plan through his/her job, then they desire the full time slots, because those off the shelf family care plans can be quite expensive. Traditional reserve positions have no health care plans. You the flyer, may have some benefits depending on what type of pay status you are on while performing duty on a particular day, and depending on how long you have been on that status. If you go on active duty for more than 30 days, then your family is covered just like someone in the Air Force, but before that point only you are covered.

Lastly, it depends a lot on the job market. Now, there aren't too many full time jobs available. When the market bounces back, there won't be as many people seeking those slots.

How flying can you do in the Guard/Reserve?

About 40% of the tanker/airlift capability is in the ANG/Reserve and the Air Force totally integrates these assets into the day to day flying operation. A guard/reserve tanker may get a tasking to refuel active duty fighters, bombers or transports at one of the many school houses around the country. Or they may go support a guard fighter unit to keep their dudes current on aerial refueling ops. Everybody has to maintain the same currencies as an active duty pilot in each particular airframe. Sometimes airline guys go non-current, then the full time Instructor Pilots get them recurrent, but that doesn't relieve them of the number of approaches, landings, airdrops that must be flown in a quarter/half/or year. I don't know about fighter currencies only 130s and T-37s.

Big AMC(Tankers, 141s and C-17s) does a lot of work for dudes called the TACC (Tanker Airlift Control Center)at Scott AFB, IL. They get a tasker and send a crew out to Europe or the Pacific for at least a week at a time. Tanker units deploy on rotations with other active, guard and reserve units to support the missions in Bosnia and the desert.

Little AMC (130s) work mostly for the ANG Bureau or the Reserve Bureau and spend lots of time hauling Army Guard units or other AF units to their so called "summer camps." Some of these units go to Europe for their two weeks of training. Sometimes you'll fly to Ramstein with a stopover in the Azores with a load of dudes, take a day off in Germany, return empty, and ten days later do the same trip in reverse when it is time to pick them up. Then there are the ongoing missions in Bosnia, Coronet Oak in Puerto Rico, and the never ending desert rotations.

Bums in the ANG or troughers in the Reserve in the 130 world can usually get 300 to 500 hours per year depending on willingness to take bad deals in order to get good deals and be the scheduler's "never say no to" any trip person.

Deployments in the 130 Air Reserve Component (ARC=ANG/Reserve)

Deployments in the ARC are typically done on a volunteer basis. This changes during wartime when the full unit may be activated.

The three big deployment for the past few years have been the South American rotation flown out of Howard AFB, Panama and now San Juan, PR; the Bosnia/Kosovo mission flown out of Ramstein Germany, and the desert mission to Southwest Asia.

San Juan is done by an ARC unit for two weeks at a time and is usually a 4-6 plane package with the maintainers, and admin staff to support that. Usually, you fly a day, then have a day off. This was a good deal in Panama, and a probably a better deal in PR, because it is now easier for your spouse to join you in Puerto Rico, rent a car and have a hotel room than it was for her to fly to Central America and do that same stuff. In the last few years, the active duty guys started joining in on this one and may take it for longer periods of time.

The other two deployments are 90 day rotations and are also shared by the active and ARC. The guys from Pope, Dyess and Little Rock have two squadrons, and they may split the deployment for 45 days each between two squadrons. Because the ARC is done on a strictly volunteer basis and most people have civilian jobs, there is no way a unit can support a 8-12 plane package for 90 days. Units will join up with units who fly the same series of planes with same avionics so everybody can fly each others planes or fly with a mixed crew of guys from different units, and send two or three planes per unit. People rotate in and out every two weeks for the length of the deployment. Unemployed guys may take longer times if they need the money. I got 30 days anytime I ever asked for it, and got 60 days continuous quite a few times.

I am fairly certain the tanker units do business the same way for the deployments they support. Right now the deal for them seems to be the one that goes on in the south of France supporting both Bosnia/Kosovo and the desert deployments.

As one who has been in both reserve components, I would recommend the Air Guard over the Air Force Reserve if I had to choose between the two.

 

[av8raaron]

Question for Toro

Single guys at my current station have a DEROS (when they leave) of two years while married guys are three years and both have the option of extending if they desire.

How long can somebody extend for? Is that for all overseas long tours or USAFE only?

 

[Toro]

The standard I've seen is a year extension for aircrew, but I know of enlisted guys who have indefinite extensions. RAF Lakenheath is the only overseas base I've been at, so I don't know if that's a USAFE thing or overseas in general.

 

[Goose17]

overseas thang in general

I know of quite a few dudes who extended in the Pacific theater as well.

I think it boils down to a "supply vs demand" thing. If there are a ton of guys itchin' to get there, they probably will be less likely to extend people. However, I'm sure a commander can always get his/her favorites extended at anytime.

Goose17

 

[klhoard]

Re: Guard!

not just what 1 schmuck like me says.

Yup!!