ACA TA Passed

[TWA Dude]

It’s going to take plenty of time to heal the wounds caused by this divisive process.

Unfortunately this is very true. At AA the "no" voters have labelled themselves the "31% club" and are very scornful of the "69ers" who voted "yes" for the concessionary contract.

The bottom line is that it'll take some time to see which course of action was wisest.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Let's not forget to add UAL, AA and (eventually) DAL to that list of pilot groups taking concessions.

It's a cold hard fact of life: we live in a free market and there's only so much ALPA can do to protect us from it. If ACA pilots had voted down this TA, I'm sure you'd all be conratulating us for refusing to "lower the bar," and you might even have hired us at your airlines three years from now when ACA folded. How nice of you.

No thank you. I'll take my 7.5% pay cut (which still keeps me head and shoulders above MESA and on a par with Skywest and Air Wisconsin) and keep my left seat and seniority.

If you are not familiar with Bain and their selection process, please do not begin to lecture ACA pilots.

 

[CRJ_Driver]

I am an ACA driver and I think the BAIN scare tactic was Bull and everyone fell for it hook, line and sinker!

But, I think I could have gone either way on this one, but decided to vote NO. Hopefully we will see a PR stating GROWTH very very soon! (Ie. by the end of June)

 

[Jeepman]

AS 214,

How is ACA pissing on Comair when ALL OF THE RECENT TA's THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED ARE FOR CARRIERS WHO ARE TRYING TO KEEP THEIR UAL CONTRACTS?!?!?! ACA only does what, 15% Comair???

 

[surplus1]

No thank you. I'll take my 7.5% pay cut (which still keeps me head and shoulders above MESA and on a par with Skywest and Air Wisconsin) and keep my left seat and seniority.

Congratulations and best wishes. That 70% of you see this as a blessing in disguise definitely proves that ignorance is bliss.

If you are not familiar with Bain and their selection process, please do not begin to lecture ACA pilots.

I'm real familiar with "Bain and their selection process". You and ARW and SKYW all deserve a whole lot of lecturing. Regretably it will change nothing for you but will prove disastrous for thousands of the rest of US.

 

[surplus1]

AS 214,

How is ACA pissing on Comair when ALL OF THE RECENT TA's THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED ARE FOR CARRIERS WHO ARE TRYING TO KEEP THEIR UAL CONTRACTS?!?!?! ACA only does what, 15% Comair???

Your lack of understanding and that of your group (as well as the other two) is explained perfectly by your post and your collective vote(s).

I do hope you'll be happy with whatever UAL contract you "keep".

 

[acaTerry]

The amount of competition is up (way up...) Too many airplanes and too many pilots chasing too few passengers who refuse to pay more than Wal-Mart prices. Supply and Demand.

Baloney! It is nearly UNIQUE to this industry. There are PLENTY of lawyers, ball players, doctors, etc. Just look in the phone book. Do they take the insulting wages we do? No. Do they let the ignorant media pi$$ on them? No. They make sure that they are paid well. The ball players, as an example, make sinful amounts of money. They want more, they strike. The public moans about it but still need their baseball. So the greedy players win. All pilots want is what is fair. But do we stand up and wait it out until the public (who DOES need us) pays it? No! We cave in like a bunch of sissies who are scared to death that we might have to sacrafice a little. Then we make excuses and rationalizations of why (all the while complaining about how unfair it all is). Oh, but you can bet MGT is taken care of. How? They scare us and lie to us until we cave.

So you can see why I don't buy this economics 101 statement about supply and demand. It looks like a few more copies of "Flying the Line" need to be passed around. This industry has seen tougher times and made it through. In fact, conditions improved over the years. But that's all over now!

Thanks to all you old-timers out there who fought in the past. You made a nice job out of this for a while. Sorry that the youngsters in today's market gave it all up.

Disgusted.....

 

[Brother Francis]

We cave in like a bunch of sissies who are scared to death that we might have to sacrafice a little.

Not all of us.

 

[House_X]

I'm still waiting for United to give us some good news. It took less than 24 hrs for Skywest to get crj-700 when they signed their TA. Not to mention our management giving a victory speech...I guess cell phones coverage doesn't work on the vacation beaches of Barbados.

So here we are with a big fat paycut, no news from our pimp and were still standing on the street corner hustling for "johns".

5 years ehh...the economy is already heading for a recovery and we're stuck with a 5 year contract. They can still get rid of the 41's, they can still furlough, and they can still make those dollars when they economy recovers.

bad contract + economic recovery = we are 5 year beooooothces

 

[46Driver]

Terry,
Tell me which statements you disagree with.

1) Competiton is up. Southwest, JetBlue, and AirTran continue to expand - the amount of passengers flying on LCC's is now significant and continues to increase.

2) The customer is increasingly price sensitive - and becoming adept at using the internet to search for the best fare.

3) Cities are luring LCC's into their towns and subsidizing them to reduce airfares - which affects the amount of revenue that a major carrier can generate.

4) The economy has tanked over the last few years and business travellers are not throwing money around as before.

5) Baseball is a closed system of a few teams - when they go on strike, baseball shuts down. To use baseball as an analogy, you would have to get all airlines to strike at the same time - not just one or two. And the baseball players did generate a huge amount of bad press - and baseball has continued to decline relative to football, basketball, NASCAR, etc...

6) I disagree. The public does not need us. A strike may inconvenience them for a little while but there is enough slack and enough competition within the air traffic system that we could disappear without any significant impairment to the customer.

 

[House_X]

46,

Check the financial news programs on cable, check the wall street journal, talk to friends outside the airline industry, the economy is showing solid signs of bouncing back. It's already happening on the west coast.

We really screwed ourselves. The thing I'm really concerned about is how little we are doing to please our Delta side. Delta is strong and we had opportunites to expand if we changed aircraft. We need to diversify and expand with other carriers.
We can all agree to that!

 

[acaTerry]

1. Don't compare regionals to these guys. It's apples to oranges. We are talking about regional airlines, let's stick to regional concessions. It's easier for a DAL pilot to accept a DAL paycut than a $21,000 /yr regional FO to take a 30% cut.

2. The same customer will also spend 50 bucks on a baseball game ticket. If the prices are high and he has to pay it, he will pay it. He does not decide major league baseball is too expensive and go to a bowling game to save money.

3. Again, if the price is set and can't be dashed around, they have to pat it.

4. Sure they are, maybe not so much as before. But what is being overlooked is the PLEASURE traveller. Look at who makes up the crowds on JB, SWA, AirTran----THIS is why they are thriving.

5. Yes it is, but it can be compared in that certain markets in air travel is also a closed market. Sure, people bellyached baseball, but the end result was in players favor.

6. Tell me that the public does not need air travel. Then look up in the sky at the planes. People can not live without it these days.

 

[ArcticFlier]

I'm still waiting for United to give us some good news. It took less than 24 hrs for Skywest to get crj-700 when they signed their TA. Not to mention our management giving a victory speech...I guess cell phones coverage doesn't work on the vacation beaches of Barbados.

So here we are with a big fat paycut, no news from our pimp and were still standing on the street corner hustling for "johns".

5 years ehh...the economy is already heading for a recovery and we're stuck with a 5 year contract. They can still get rid of the 41's, they can still furlough, and they can still make those dollars when they economy recovers.

bad contract + economic recovery = we are 5 year beooooothces

Being on vacation, maybe I missed something. We have -700's?

AF

 

[realitycheck]

Pareto

Pareto effect- why are people surprised when "crummy" TAs pass with 70%? It's the 80-20 rule; 80% of the posters speak for 20% of the population.

And if a TA passes well (ACA, SkyWest), maybe you nay-sayers should leave room for the possibility that other people from time-to-time are smarter than you.

 

[RJPilott]

Re: Pareto

other people from time-to-time are smarter than you.

or, perhaps, they just scare a bit easier. Not 2 days have past and our company is already trying to pull a fast one with FRJ FO vacancies without recalling furloughs while blatently violating our contract. Business as usual at ACA.

 

[buttercup]

RJPilott,

Are you from Long Island?

 

[RJPilott]

maybe....Hows EJA "AS214"???


you still working in the X??

 

[buttercup]

Yeah.. Did my PIC checkride last August.. Hope all is well with you. Did you get the boat in the water thiis summer?

 

[RJPilott]

I PMed ya...

 

[uncle]

FRJ FO

RJPilot

I'm one of the fuloughed FRJ FOs. I'm not pleased about what the Co is doing. I hope we hold strong and no one bids for the position. If the Co recalls just 10 pilots, two of us are FRJ FOs.

To all the ACA FOs: We (the 96) need your help