Like I said, it's just some food for thought from a 3rd party source (which usually isn't completely correct)......my whole point, both companies seem to be pretty good and fairly equal........and I did invite those who actually have the contracts handy to make corrections in the information I posted.....
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ACA, should I go?
- Thread starter N813CA
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Anaconda
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those numbers from air inc are correct for comair.
i had a feeling the numbers for air whisky might be old as i know they exceeded what we received on our new contract (in pay at least). in fact, if memory serves, AW's old starting CRJ pay was higher than our new, "industry standard" pay rate. 11 days is definitely not "industry standard".
OH is also paid "greater of" on a "lookback", which is a controversial (sp) subject for some. and yes, 4:20 min day is correct.
straight out of the book:
C. For each bid period, a pilot will be credited and paid, at the applicable rate of pay set
forth in paragraph A.1., above, the greater of the following:
1. Flight time, including any additional pay credits set forth in paragraph D., below
and displacement pay as set forth in paragraph E., below. Flight time will be
calculated by flight segment, using scheduled or actual block-to-block time,
whichever is greater.
2. One (1) minute of credit for each two (2) minutes of duty time calculated on a bid
period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2., below, this provision will not
apply to time spent in training.
3. One (1) minute of credit for each three and three-quarters (3¾) minutes of trip
time calculated on a bid period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2.,
below, this provision will not apply to time spent in training.
4. An average of four hours and twenty minutes (4:20) for each duty day calculated
on a bid period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2., below, this
provision will not apply to time spent in training.
i had a feeling the numbers for air whisky might be old as i know they exceeded what we received on our new contract (in pay at least). in fact, if memory serves, AW's old starting CRJ pay was higher than our new, "industry standard" pay rate. 11 days is definitely not "industry standard".
OH is also paid "greater of" on a "lookback", which is a controversial (sp) subject for some. and yes, 4:20 min day is correct.
straight out of the book:
C. For each bid period, a pilot will be credited and paid, at the applicable rate of pay set
forth in paragraph A.1., above, the greater of the following:
1. Flight time, including any additional pay credits set forth in paragraph D., below
and displacement pay as set forth in paragraph E., below. Flight time will be
calculated by flight segment, using scheduled or actual block-to-block time,
whichever is greater.
2. One (1) minute of credit for each two (2) minutes of duty time calculated on a bid
period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2., below, this provision will not
apply to time spent in training.
3. One (1) minute of credit for each three and three-quarters (3¾) minutes of trip
time calculated on a bid period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2.,
below, this provision will not apply to time spent in training.
4. An average of four hours and twenty minutes (4:20) for each duty day calculated
on a bid period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2., below, this
provision will not apply to time spent in training.
rightrudder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2002
- Posts
- 505
Here's some air wis numbers:
Pay: greater of: 1 hour of pay for 2 hours duty
1 hour of pay for 3.5 hours trip
min 3 hours per day
actual flight time
scheduled flt time
100% for deadhead or any cancellation
150% for extention or draft, flying on days off
75 hour per month guarantee
Rates: (as of Aug. 1, 2002)
FO: 1st year 21.75 hourly 328; 24/hr. CRJ or 146
2nd year 27.17/hr 328; 35.01 CRJ; 42.01 146
CA: 2nd year 45.29/328; 58.35CRJ
10 yr: 59.55/328; 76.74/CRJ; 92.09/146
max: 67.08/328; 91.97/CRJ; 120.59/146 2002 rates
Per Diem: 1.50 per hour domestic
vacation: 1 week per year first year, 2 weeks per year year 2-4; 3 weeks 5-9 years; 4 weeks 10-18 years; 5 weeks
sick leave: 3.5 hours/month (equiv. of 1 day of pay per month)
Time off: min 12 days per month
That's probably more info than anyone wants, so i'll quit now. Just some basic numbers.
RR
Pay: greater of: 1 hour of pay for 2 hours duty
1 hour of pay for 3.5 hours trip
min 3 hours per day
actual flight time
scheduled flt time
100% for deadhead or any cancellation
150% for extention or draft, flying on days off
75 hour per month guarantee
Rates: (as of Aug. 1, 2002)
FO: 1st year 21.75 hourly 328; 24/hr. CRJ or 146
2nd year 27.17/hr 328; 35.01 CRJ; 42.01 146
CA: 2nd year 45.29/328; 58.35CRJ
10 yr: 59.55/328; 76.74/CRJ; 92.09/146
max: 67.08/328; 91.97/CRJ; 120.59/146 2002 rates
Per Diem: 1.50 per hour domestic
vacation: 1 week per year first year, 2 weeks per year year 2-4; 3 weeks 5-9 years; 4 weeks 10-18 years; 5 weeks
sick leave: 3.5 hours/month (equiv. of 1 day of pay per month)
Time off: min 12 days per month
That's probably more info than anyone wants, so i'll quit now. Just some basic numbers.
RR
DarnNearaJet
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FlyboyPhil
Well-known member
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Thats when you get a job at UAL or Delta... DUH! 
N813CA
Yeah buddy
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BlueRidger
Well-known member
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- Dec 18, 2001
- Posts
- 103
Another dose of reality. ACA is not going away anytime soon no matter what changes with mainline flying.
Even If UAL and DAL took back all of the mainline flyng that was transferred to us in the last two years, most of our flying would still be intact as we have been flying those routes for so long. You just cannot economically run a 737 between BUF and IAD. Compund this by Southwest flying a 737 between BUF and BWI at far less cost. The a turboprop or an RJ is the only way to compete as well as draw that feed at a profit. Second the RJ is not going to dissapear. It will be used for much more than mainline replacement. AMR went to all RJ feed in ORD so UAL must do the same. The RJ actually is a really good tool to increase frequency. Increased frequency means more chances to catch the last minute business traveller whose meeting ran late and needs to catch the next flight. It is this kind of traveller who generates the most profit.
The RJ is also good at developing new long and thin routes or reesablishing ones that were abandoned a long time ago. Such as our service to MHT from IAD. Airports like MHT will continue to grow as companies like Southwest and Pan Am move into them and develop them into better recognized airports. Why not take advantage of this and add RJ service to these airports to benefit from the increased passengers generated at these airports. It is the best way to compete against the low fare carriers.
Hub bypass routes is another good use of the RJ. If you want to go from JAX to IAD you can go on DAL thru Atlanta or CVG but with more spokes from you hub you give passengers the optionm to bypass the hub and go straight to their destination. DAL even does this to themselves by flying an RJ from DFW to GSO instead of routing passengers thru ATL as they used to.
Even more importantly is the sad truth is that mainline is not going to take up all of its old flying. I really hope mainline does take back all its old flying and morebecause it means more and better job opportunities for us.
So the reality is that the RJ is WAY too useful to give up. Further RJ's are still too scarce for the mainline partners to give up any of its RJ possessing affiliates.
ACA has plenty of cash on hand, is profitable every quarter and even if there is no future growth our contracts guarentee a certain profit for at least the next 7 years from our mainline partners. Worse comes to worse, ACA has never been afraid to strike out on its own that is why ACA is ahead of the Game in the RJ race compared to most regionals. ACA is not going away anytime soon.
Even If UAL and DAL took back all of the mainline flyng that was transferred to us in the last two years, most of our flying would still be intact as we have been flying those routes for so long. You just cannot economically run a 737 between BUF and IAD. Compund this by Southwest flying a 737 between BUF and BWI at far less cost. The a turboprop or an RJ is the only way to compete as well as draw that feed at a profit. Second the RJ is not going to dissapear. It will be used for much more than mainline replacement. AMR went to all RJ feed in ORD so UAL must do the same. The RJ actually is a really good tool to increase frequency. Increased frequency means more chances to catch the last minute business traveller whose meeting ran late and needs to catch the next flight. It is this kind of traveller who generates the most profit.
The RJ is also good at developing new long and thin routes or reesablishing ones that were abandoned a long time ago. Such as our service to MHT from IAD. Airports like MHT will continue to grow as companies like Southwest and Pan Am move into them and develop them into better recognized airports. Why not take advantage of this and add RJ service to these airports to benefit from the increased passengers generated at these airports. It is the best way to compete against the low fare carriers.
Hub bypass routes is another good use of the RJ. If you want to go from JAX to IAD you can go on DAL thru Atlanta or CVG but with more spokes from you hub you give passengers the optionm to bypass the hub and go straight to their destination. DAL even does this to themselves by flying an RJ from DFW to GSO instead of routing passengers thru ATL as they used to.
Even more importantly is the sad truth is that mainline is not going to take up all of its old flying. I really hope mainline does take back all its old flying and morebecause it means more and better job opportunities for us.
So the reality is that the RJ is WAY too useful to give up. Further RJ's are still too scarce for the mainline partners to give up any of its RJ possessing affiliates.
ACA has plenty of cash on hand, is profitable every quarter and even if there is no future growth our contracts guarentee a certain profit for at least the next 7 years from our mainline partners. Worse comes to worse, ACA has never been afraid to strike out on its own that is why ACA is ahead of the Game in the RJ race compared to most regionals. ACA is not going away anytime soon.
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