rogerroger
Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Posts
- 15
- Total Time
- 1700
Hired by both airlines and can't decide where to go. need any good input. Thanks
ACA or ASA career advice
- Thread starter rogerroger
- Start date
asarjfo
Scheduling Fodder
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 272
- Total Time
- 3000
I can't speak for ACA, but ASA is a great place to work!
I happened to be in Flight Safety when our President "skip" Barnett was just hanging out talking to some pilots about the latest and greatest. The 70 seat will be on property sometime in the next couple of weeks and on-line by April 1st. We are accepting 7 new RJ's this month and a total of 27 this year. We are retiring some EMB's so the net gain is something like 14 airplanes. We are supposed to be integrating all of the hubs soon, right now SKW is pillaging DFW and ACA seems to be doing alot in CVG. It is a stable place with "mother Delta writing the checks" and Delta has stated they are going to concentrate on the growth in the ATL hub so it should be good for us also.
The only "unknown" is the contract wich expires in September so who knows what will happen with that.
Good luck
I happened to be in Flight Safety when our President "skip" Barnett was just hanging out talking to some pilots about the latest and greatest. The 70 seat will be on property sometime in the next couple of weeks and on-line by April 1st. We are accepting 7 new RJ's this month and a total of 27 this year. We are retiring some EMB's so the net gain is something like 14 airplanes. We are supposed to be integrating all of the hubs soon, right now SKW is pillaging DFW and ACA seems to be doing alot in CVG. It is a stable place with "mother Delta writing the checks" and Delta has stated they are going to concentrate on the growth in the ATL hub so it should be good for us also.
The only "unknown" is the contract wich expires in September so who knows what will happen with that.
Good luck
The first question would which one has offered you a sooner class date. I know ASA is starting newhire classes in Feb and the training department says they are being told to prepare for "40 newhires a month until further notice".
I know nothing about ACA, but at ASA your chances of being furloughed are very slim. We have excellent benefits (identical to Delta employees) and fly some pretty good equipment. The pay isn't bad at $19.02 for a first year FO, regardless of equipment. 2nd year is ~$26 for an E120 FO and ~$32 for a CRJ FO. Our contract is amendable in September, so things may get "interesting" for a while.
You have an excellent chance of going to the jet right out of newhire class, but you may get the E120. It all depends on what the current needs are. The same goes for domicile. We have ATL and DFW, but I think more FOs are needed in DFW, so you may have to go there for a couple months.
Feel free to email or PM me if you need more info.
Good luck.
I know nothing about ACA, but at ASA your chances of being furloughed are very slim. We have excellent benefits (identical to Delta employees) and fly some pretty good equipment. The pay isn't bad at $19.02 for a first year FO, regardless of equipment. 2nd year is ~$26 for an E120 FO and ~$32 for a CRJ FO. Our contract is amendable in September, so things may get "interesting" for a while.
You have an excellent chance of going to the jet right out of newhire class, but you may get the E120. It all depends on what the current needs are. The same goes for domicile. We have ATL and DFW, but I think more FOs are needed in DFW, so you may have to go there for a couple months.
Feel free to email or PM me if you need more info.
Good luck.
ACA is the only airline i've been hired by but the experience was horrible. By the time i finished training with them i hated them so much i left the company. Call me a fool but i believe you oght to be happy where you work! Go to ASA !
CaptBuzzard
I'm back!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 145
- Total Time
- 2000
ASARJFO,
How did you get hired with less than the 1200 mins?
I'm curious. have they hired anyone with less?
I will have 1200 atleast by the summer. I work on the ramp for
Delta, not that it matters, but I do have some connections in Atlanta with ASA.
How did you get hired with less than the 1200 mins?
I'm curious. have they hired anyone with less?
I will have 1200 atleast by the summer. I work on the ramp for
Delta, not that it matters, but I do have some connections in Atlanta with ASA.
Sabre60
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 53
- Total Time
- 11,700
rogerroger said:
I personally know nothing about ASA, however, 6 of my friends from MIDWAY went to ACA after we went down the tubes, and 5 of them have left already saying that it is an absolutely miserable place to be. Training by intimidation seems to be the norm there. One of my friends was told to expect around 4 years to upgrade.
Needless to say, he was one of the first to go. As for my 6th friend, he also is looking to get out of there. I just want to stress that these are NOT personal experiences of my own, but of people I used to work work with. In talking with all of them,the thread of discontent seems to be pretty common.
I don't know much about ASA, but I have NEVER heard anything like what I have just told you about ACA. Hope this helps. Good Luck!!!
sabreliner
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Posts
- 216
- Total Time
- 5000+
Not to dash your hopes but...CaptBuzzard said:
He was most likely hired thru either the Flight Saftey or ATA programs, or thru a bridge program like we had with ERAU. To my knowledge, these programs are over with, as we don't have a shortage of applicants for the time being. We may still have some Flight Saftey guys swimming in the pool, but I think that will be it for a while.
I believe our mins rest at 1200 and 200. However, with the current state of the industry (and even before 9-11) we are generally not hiring low time pilots off the street. Most of our new hires have 121 or 135 experience, and more than the minimum times.
I'm sorry to say that the hiring party of '99-'00 is over. Back to the days of teaching forever, then flying 135, then maybe getting an airline job.
That being said, it never hurts to try...
I've heard AirNet is hiring...
It's tough
Pilotboy
I really hope you didn't leave ACA on account of the training department. Sure it can suck, but beyond that the company is a good place to be. Management (Upper) knows how to make money (even in lean times) and the work rules and pay are among the best in the "regional" industry. Not to mention the fact that leaving an airline job right now might be detrimental to your career. But to each his own....just hoping you didn't quit because you hated training. Everybody does....simulator training at any airline is very intense. It can make you want to go become an engineer! Good luck.
Pilotboy
I really hope you didn't leave ACA on account of the training department. Sure it can suck, but beyond that the company is a good place to be. Management (Upper) knows how to make money (even in lean times) and the work rules and pay are among the best in the "regional" industry. Not to mention the fact that leaving an airline job right now might be detrimental to your career. But to each his own....just hoping you didn't quit because you hated training. Everybody does....simulator training at any airline is very intense. It can make you want to go become an engineer! Good luck.
reply to jboss
hey jboss your right !
I hope i didn't make the wrong decision but i was utterly miserable there at ACA. Im trying to find another job now and it's not easy like you said. I understand how leaving a job now can further retard my career a bit but i don't know how it can be such a bad thing. Is it considered so wrong to leave when your not happy at a job as a pilot for a particular airline? I've been told that its not such a bad thing. I staying hopefull that something will come along my way and i'll be able to earn a living doing what i love. Laters
hey jboss your right !
I hope i didn't make the wrong decision but i was utterly miserable there at ACA. Im trying to find another job now and it's not easy like you said. I understand how leaving a job now can further retard my career a bit but i don't know how it can be such a bad thing. Is it considered so wrong to leave when your not happy at a job as a pilot for a particular airline? I've been told that its not such a bad thing. I staying hopefull that something will come along my way and i'll be able to earn a living doing what i love. Laters
You should go to whomever offers you the class date first, as stated earlier. The earlier rumors about class dates at ASA have been changed. Drew Bedson spoke to the Feb class and told them that after the March class, there will be none until the Fall. People in recruiting have backed this up. Of course, we all know it could change tonight.
asarjfo
Scheduling Fodder
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 272
- Total Time
- 3000
Sabreliner is correct, I did go through a bridge program. I was right at the "tail" end of it and feel very lucky to be at ASA. Hopefully things will pick back up, though I doubt it will be to the level it was at 2 years ago.
Good luck to you
Good luck to you
Garbageman
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2002
- Posts
- 12
- Total Time
- 2200
Well, as Bailout says, things have changed. Now the word from Skip is that the rest of the pool will be drained and this summer (July) hiring will resume for an unknown number of classes.
I too know very little about ACA. When I was employed at another airline, "Hal" (Chief Pilot at that time) tried to convince me how great the J-41 was. So I guess I am biased about those guys at ACA management. ASA on the other hand I continue to be impressed with. If I had the decision to make between the two it would still be the same...ASA.
I too know very little about ACA. When I was employed at another airline, "Hal" (Chief Pilot at that time) tried to convince me how great the J-41 was. So I guess I am biased about those guys at ACA management. ASA on the other hand I continue to be impressed with. If I had the decision to make between the two it would still be the same...ASA.
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
- Total Time
- 7000+
Well, I don't know much about ASA. And ASA is one of the very few places I don't know anyone at but here is my 2 bits:
While I feel that ACA has some of the finest pilots out there, and growth is only going to continue upward, I would probably not come over here.
Yes, upper level management is really good: ACA is going to survive and thrive.
Yes, we have very good pilots. Anyone who can get through the training here is a darn good pilot.
Yes, upgrades are pretty quick. FRJ CA in @ 2 yrs.
BUT!!!
No, mid-level management is not in touch, much less concerned about it's pilot group. Crew Scheduling is exceptionally bad and our new sick policy is ridiculous.
No, our training program is not friendly. We have a little more than our share of instructors who feel that yelling, cussing, and arbitrarily failing people is part of the job. Especially the CRJ.
No, becoming a CA is not the end of the road. It is only the beginning. Upgrade comes pretty quickly, but sometimes you have to really put your foot down, and hard, over dispatch. And schedulers who are seemingly deliberately trying to find ways to violate the contract make it no fun.
I'm going into my fourth year here. I used to love this place. I was going to be a lifer until about 9 months ago. Lines suck. Our poor guys who build them (pilot volunteers) are often overridden by the company. It's pathetic. Top 30% of our seniority list and I get 11 days off with 80 hrs block.
I know it's better to have a job to complain about than to be looking for one. But for the amount of professionalism and effort this job demands, an airline should not use intimidation to squeeze you harder. It is only my opinion, but here it is: I would go elsewhere. ACA is financially solid, but Quality of Life issues are poor. Pay is good. But if life is no good....
Well, just my opinion. I hope I don't get fired for this.....
While I feel that ACA has some of the finest pilots out there, and growth is only going to continue upward, I would probably not come over here.
Yes, upper level management is really good: ACA is going to survive and thrive.
Yes, we have very good pilots. Anyone who can get through the training here is a darn good pilot.
Yes, upgrades are pretty quick. FRJ CA in @ 2 yrs.
BUT!!!
No, mid-level management is not in touch, much less concerned about it's pilot group. Crew Scheduling is exceptionally bad and our new sick policy is ridiculous.
No, our training program is not friendly. We have a little more than our share of instructors who feel that yelling, cussing, and arbitrarily failing people is part of the job. Especially the CRJ.
No, becoming a CA is not the end of the road. It is only the beginning. Upgrade comes pretty quickly, but sometimes you have to really put your foot down, and hard, over dispatch. And schedulers who are seemingly deliberately trying to find ways to violate the contract make it no fun.
I'm going into my fourth year here. I used to love this place. I was going to be a lifer until about 9 months ago. Lines suck. Our poor guys who build them (pilot volunteers) are often overridden by the company. It's pathetic. Top 30% of our seniority list and I get 11 days off with 80 hrs block.
I know it's better to have a job to complain about than to be looking for one. But for the amount of professionalism and effort this job demands, an airline should not use intimidation to squeeze you harder. It is only my opinion, but here it is: I would go elsewhere. ACA is financially solid, but Quality of Life issues are poor. Pay is good. But if life is no good....
Well, just my opinion. I hope I don't get fired for this.....
InHot
Oh Yeahhhh
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 279
- Total Time
- 12000
Thanks for the Candid Opinion
Hey Terry,
Looking in from the outside and trying to get a feel is at best an art form, never a science. Not til one is inside does one have a true feel for what is going on.
However, your candid comments in this post has provided what appears to be a frank and dispassionate view of life at ACA.
Ideally there should not be any friction between dispatch/schedules and the airplane drivers. As a matter of fact it is counter productive. If only management would realize this fact, this great job (part 121 flying) would be awesome!
Best of luck to you and Thank-you very much for your insight.
Hey Terry,
Looking in from the outside and trying to get a feel is at best an art form, never a science. Not til one is inside does one have a true feel for what is going on.
However, your candid comments in this post has provided what appears to be a frank and dispassionate view of life at ACA.
I've seen this at other companies as well. Why does it have to be this way? Pilots are professionals. You say ACA has professionals in upper management. Why can't they staff professional folks to interact with the pilots?
Ideally there should not be any friction between dispatch/schedules and the airplane drivers. As a matter of fact it is counter productive. If only management would realize this fact, this great job (part 121 flying) would be awesome!
Best of luck to you and Thank-you very much for your insight.
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
- Total Time
- 7000+
InHot,
I think what you said about 121 flying being such a great/fun job is why management gets away with what they do. They know we love flying, and that we'll put up with crap to be able to do it.
And even though there is ALPA, we have a tough time getting what we're worth because the press and the public are generally against the airline employees. After all, if we don't work, everyone suffers. Then good ole management says "look at what they are doing to the travelling public". Everyone finds it easier to just get mad at us than to look deep into what issues pilots have to face and deal with. The public has no idea how rules can be manipulated and twisted to push us harder. My favorite is "you're only allowed to work 8 hours a day!". Oh boy....
I think what you said about 121 flying being such a great/fun job is why management gets away with what they do. They know we love flying, and that we'll put up with crap to be able to do it.
And even though there is ALPA, we have a tough time getting what we're worth because the press and the public are generally against the airline employees. After all, if we don't work, everyone suffers. Then good ole management says "look at what they are doing to the travelling public". Everyone finds it easier to just get mad at us than to look deep into what issues pilots have to face and deal with. The public has no idea how rules can be manipulated and twisted to push us harder. My favorite is "you're only allowed to work 8 hours a day!". Oh boy....
If this helps... my experience with ASA:
I' ve been with the company since last summer, also at the tail end of the last hiring phase.
Placed as CRJ DFW FO. Training was excellent. The instructors were fine and I made many friends, both new-hires and among instructors. The whole process took about 3 months from BI to conclusion of IOE. No surprises, professional, and most seem very happy to be there.
I have an easy commute to DFW, so that has worked out for me as well. I have held a line, either regular or relief since IOE, so I have not had to sit reserve or even on a nap line since I've been there. Next month will be the first month for me on reserve and that is due to E-120 FO's moving over to the CRJ in front of me, and the reduction of DFW lines next month. I missed a hard line by 2 spots. ATL FOs, however, have been on reserve since hire, so I've been very lucky in that regard. With hiring resuming, and jet deliveries, reserve status for me shouldn't be more than a few months. No problem.
So far, I haven't been junior manned, and only extended once, which was subsequently cancelled, so I received 1 1/2X pay for nothing.
All of of the captains I have flown with (30 or so) I have gotten on fine with and virtually all, for the most part, are happy at ASA. The CRJ700 arrivals this year should clear out about 120 or so people on 50 seater lists, so that will help as well. This, combined with the 40/50 deliveries, new hiring, and the E-120 count levelling off at around 30 aircraft in the fleet, should provide a decent quality of life for new hires in the near future, however, it won't be like it was just before I was hired (1-1/2 yr jet upgrades, 15 day off schedules with 6 months with the company, and so forth). All in all, a great place to work, but again, my experience has been unique. My ATL buddies have been on reserve since the get-go.
I don't know anyone at ACA, so I don't intend this to sound biased. This is simply my experience here at ASA. So far, so good. The future looks pretty good as well. Hope this helps.
I' ve been with the company since last summer, also at the tail end of the last hiring phase.
Placed as CRJ DFW FO. Training was excellent. The instructors were fine and I made many friends, both new-hires and among instructors. The whole process took about 3 months from BI to conclusion of IOE. No surprises, professional, and most seem very happy to be there.
I have an easy commute to DFW, so that has worked out for me as well. I have held a line, either regular or relief since IOE, so I have not had to sit reserve or even on a nap line since I've been there. Next month will be the first month for me on reserve and that is due to E-120 FO's moving over to the CRJ in front of me, and the reduction of DFW lines next month. I missed a hard line by 2 spots. ATL FOs, however, have been on reserve since hire, so I've been very lucky in that regard. With hiring resuming, and jet deliveries, reserve status for me shouldn't be more than a few months. No problem.
So far, I haven't been junior manned, and only extended once, which was subsequently cancelled, so I received 1 1/2X pay for nothing.
All of of the captains I have flown with (30 or so) I have gotten on fine with and virtually all, for the most part, are happy at ASA. The CRJ700 arrivals this year should clear out about 120 or so people on 50 seater lists, so that will help as well. This, combined with the 40/50 deliveries, new hiring, and the E-120 count levelling off at around 30 aircraft in the fleet, should provide a decent quality of life for new hires in the near future, however, it won't be like it was just before I was hired (1-1/2 yr jet upgrades, 15 day off schedules with 6 months with the company, and so forth). All in all, a great place to work, but again, my experience has been unique. My ATL buddies have been on reserve since the get-go.
I don't know anyone at ACA, so I don't intend this to sound biased. This is simply my experience here at ASA. So far, so good. The future looks pretty good as well. Hope this helps.
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
- Total Time
- 7000+
Some of you have posted about bad interview experiences here at ACA. Well, a new interview panel has been assembled and hopefully that will put a stop to some of the BS that was going on before. Hopefully, it will also be a sign of overall improvement in company realtions with employees. After all, if you treat potential employees like dirt, you will probably (and do) treat your active employees poorly as well.
I hope this is a step in the right directioin. Things have really deteriorated here and I sure hope that we bounce back to some semblance of the great airline we used to be.
I will be applying for the next round of interview Captains when the expansion comes. In the meantime let me extend apologies on the behalf of those of us at ACA who really are not out there to make things lousy for you potential pilots. Good luck
Terry
I hope this is a step in the right directioin. Things have really deteriorated here and I sure hope that we bounce back to some semblance of the great airline we used to be.
I will be applying for the next round of interview Captains when the expansion comes. In the meantime let me extend apologies on the behalf of those of us at ACA who really are not out there to make things lousy for you potential pilots. Good luck
Terry
acaTerry - seen it before
"Crew Scheduling is exceptionally bad and our new sick policy is ridiculous. "
"Upgrade comes pretty quickly, but sometimes you have to really put your foot down, and hard, over dispatch. And schedulers who are seemingly deliberately trying to find ways to violate the contract make it no fun"
"Lines suck. Our poor guys who build them (pilot volunteers) are often overridden by the company. It's pathetic. Top 30% of our seniority list and I get 11 days off with 80 hrs block"
acaTerry,
The guy you hired from Allegheny (i won't say his name) to head your sked. dept. did the same crap to us. Your complaints are all to familiar to us at Allegheny. Hope you make the best of it.
BTW: I see your in the 41. How's Oscar, still up too his old tricks. I herd he was and instructor. I can't see him yelling at people. Cursing well thats another thing. EEEEEEEEEZZZZZZYYYYYYY
Happy Flying
"Crew Scheduling is exceptionally bad and our new sick policy is ridiculous. "
"Upgrade comes pretty quickly, but sometimes you have to really put your foot down, and hard, over dispatch. And schedulers who are seemingly deliberately trying to find ways to violate the contract make it no fun"
"Lines suck. Our poor guys who build them (pilot volunteers) are often overridden by the company. It's pathetic. Top 30% of our seniority list and I get 11 days off with 80 hrs block"
acaTerry,
The guy you hired from Allegheny (i won't say his name) to head your sked. dept. did the same crap to us. Your complaints are all to familiar to us at Allegheny. Hope you make the best of it.
BTW: I see your in the 41. How's Oscar, still up too his old tricks. I herd he was and instructor. I can't see him yelling at people. Cursing well thats another thing. EEEEEEEEEZZZZZZYYYYYYY
Happy Flying
Cappy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Posts
- 144
- Total Time
- 13,000
Didn't you say on a previous thread that you quit at the end of training thereby not finishing it? Unless you work for ASA how can you know what it is like? After looking at your training date with the current ACA seniority list, I came to the conclusion that you are(were) only 6 months from 328Jet upgrade. It is such a waste that you quit when there are others here that would have stuck through the training no matter what.pilotboy said:
My previous offer stands...you send me your name via private e-mail and I will post the results of my investigation as to why you "quit" at sim 11.
ASA is a good company to work for via some close friends...I do not believe they hire pilots that walk out at sim 11.
Post Safely