ACA Negotiating Update

[RJPilott]

ACA Negotiating Committee has shot down two company proposals so far. They seem to be holding the line pretty well. The MEC took an informal poll of the pilot group from a 3rd party professional polling company which i believe is giving our negotiating committee more ammo (great decision from the MEC). I have heard our committee has walked away from the table a few times. They are not rolling over easy and the company will have an even tougher time with pilot votes once a TA is reached if it resembles anything like Mesa. Tom Moore is showing signs of stress and sweat. Kuddos to ACA Negotiating Committee on holding the line for a professional pilot group.

I know myself as an ACA pilot will definitely do anything to keep the bar from plummeting into poverty level and sub-standard work rules. 99% of the ACA pilots i talk to feel the same, senior, junior and mid level. ACA pilots are starting to come up with a new slogan for our companys' concession campaign, "Full pay to the last day!". Many of us are prepared to take it there. Some mid-level seniority pilots have already resigned and found other better paying jobs in Corp and 135 in fear of working for Mesa related work rules and pay. There are many more that are prepared to do the same.

 

[surplus1]

"Full pay to the last day!".

Isn't that borrowed from USAirways? Maybe a different slogan would be a good idea.

Hope you can hold the line. AWAC just caved.

Good luck.

 

[RJPilott]

actually.. in the infamous words of JC, "I did not know that". But, when trying to squeeze water from a rock that has very little moisture left, the rock will crumble. So i think it fits pretty well with us. Thanks for the good wishes. I think we're gonna need it after ARW. Although, ARW still does better than Mesa with their TA ratified and now they are considered "competitive". Good luck to the Mesa guys. I see JO is already coming up with excuses. Wont be long before he starts to attack their "iron clad" scope.

 

[terryhfly]

How many regional airlines do you think are not going to cave?
My bet is NONE. All the airlines are cutting costs.

The new TA at AWAC is still well above most regionals and in places better then some majors. So, don't say we lowered the bar for everyone else.

I assume that ACA is in the same sinking boat that AWAC is in and I bet the outcome is the same. I could be wrong.

flyer

 

[Machdog1]

Super J41

I agree I don't think are concession package, if there is one will even be close to Mesa's, we have seen that for what are MEC has turned down already. In regards to full pay to the last day do you really think that another job is that easy to come by. I am not saying yes to concessions, I havent seen the proposal, I am just saying consider it!! A package could mean more aircraft and upgrades and our layed off brothers and sisters coming back, think of that also. Thanks.

 

[RJPilott]

its time to get out of this profession. There is absolutely no glory left. I dont blame Mesa. For those pilots that have income above and beyond working for a living as a pilot, this is now your industry.. .work for free, cause its going that route, enjoy... there is no longer a living in flying airplanes under 121.. i will now counter Mesa in any concession... as i look for a job elsewhere. I will be happy to underbid what you have done. Enjoy your contract when JO comes to you for concessions vs. furloughs cause ARW and ACA have set the new industry std to be more competitive than you. Lets see how you guys like it. As sick as it is. i'll watch your planes crash month after month due to those that will work for lower wages than ACA and ARW when we under bid you.. and you counter us... Hell.. lets race to the bottom.. might as well...who will work for those wages when the bottom is hit? Unsafe, ineperienced pilots ... enjoy.. im going into another industry after i vote yes to undercut Mesa.. Then i'll get some popcorn and watch the new CFI in a CRJ at 1000 hours with 40 bucks an hour and 7 off per month fatigued into LGA on the news.

Now, im going to vote to drive your wages down. The next jet you hear passing over your head... duck

 

[the turtle]

You are one heartless ba$tard to wish death upon someone. I hope you do leave the cockpit, and seek professional help.

 

[RJPilott]

You are one heartless ba$tard to wish death upon someone.

You need to return to grammar school and redo some comprehension classes as i dont wish death upon anyone. Im just facing reality. You can hide from it all you want... but will you work for 17/hr with 7 days off per month for the first and second year without CX pay flying a CRJ? Who do you think will be jumping at the chance to do that? I forsee many accidents in the future if this race to the bottom continues. Hey, remember, we are our own pilot group and will not have any impact on Mesa if we vote less than their current contract as they havent had any impact on our contract. HA HA! I'll be watching you guys slave away overhead as i fire up my BBQ on weekends.

 

[the turtle]

"...and redo some comprehension classes as i dont wish death upon anyone. Im just facing reality."

reality of what? So you don't want to see accidents but the "race to the bottom" is the cause? Which is it? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

And you better not mention the AMW crash in CLT. The Capt had more hours than you.

ps. I hope you overcook your steak.

 

[the turtle]

Like to stay up all night and discuss this w/you, but this is only my second of four nights home before I do Monday out-and-back, then another three days off before a four day, followed by four off..etc. So I need some sleep. These scheds are brutal.

Hey, be careful out there on Monday...I might not be as sharp as you'd like.

 

[RJPilott]

[B} The Capt had more hours than you.

[/B]

How many hours do i have?


no too intelligent are ya?

And yes. .sometimes i did overcook my steak... but that is when i worked as a CFI and couldnt cook on the grill as much as i do now.

 

[RJPilott]

Like to stay up all night and discuss this w/you, but this is only my second of four nights home before I do Monday out-and-back, then another three days off before a four day, followed by four off..etc. So I need some sleep. These scheds are brutal.

Hey, be careful out there on Monday...I might not be as sharp as you'd like.

Its cool bro. Im actually off the next 6.. then on for 4. .then off the next 5.... I know you are qualified. But who is going to take your spot when they ask you for 7-10% lower to compete? Sweet Dreams dude...

 

[Machdog1]

I agree

Hey RJ boy maybe its better if you left the company, with talk like that we don't need people like you working for this company. Also, you need to stop going to extremes, nobody metioned anything about $17 and hour and seven days off we don't even know whats proposed yet. I am just sad that you have the power to vote. The quicker you find another job the better!! Like you said hopefully it doesn't have to do with flying.

 

[Machdog1]

And also......

For the record I will vote down any TA that will not allow me to make a living, I agree with you on that and only that!! Hopefully there will be no TA!!

 

[RJPilott]

Relax there killer, im just trying to make a point.

 

[C-5 MEM]

Arguments is what a company wants. If we focus are anger towards one another we forget about management. This goes down every time we go towards negoations. Every airline has the same strategy. Get the pilots going and that causes stress to accept something you dont want. For example. Ever get into an disagreement about something that ends up being heated. I see people say forget about it or just drop it.
This is just my two cents.........

 

[uncle]

I'm one of the 96 furloughed pilots from ACA. It's no fun losing your salary and benefits(ACA's benefits are fairly decent compared to other companys' outside of the industry). Would I have accepted the job last summer if the salary and benefits weren't decent? NO. I love flying...like 99% of you out there. But I won't return to ACA if the salary and working conditions deteriorate too much(this is assuming I'm recalled, eventually).

I feel honored to have worked with some of the most professional, pleasant and honest people in the industry. I want to return. So please focus your energies on doing what is right and not bickering at each other. Think about what you are typing before you hit Submit Reply.

 

[Machdog1]

What about the bid?

Isn't the United Express bid due today? What is the story with that has anybody heard anything?
P.S.
We all got a pay raise at ACA yesterday!!

 

[walkthasky]

.

YAYY We got a pay raise!
I know Kung Fu..What the Hell..
I made a pwomise, a PWOMISE Mr. Frodo, and i dont mean too.
There is no life in the void, only .... DEATH.
What about 2nd breakfast, 11sees, afternoon tea, lunch, dinner.
Michael Bolton is a no talent a$$ clown.

Gotta Go...

 

[C-5 MEM]

Walk,

I hear our class will be furloughed by Aug. Do you have anything as a backup yet?


TERRY V.

 

[walkthasky]

not sure...

The latest "rumor" i hear is that they will start in sept. @ 25 a month, which should mean we go in Dec. 03 sometime. But thats just rumor.
Are you back home ?? When do you think you'll finish up training ?? You're missing all this reserve fun Anyways, just trying to stay positive here. There are alot of pessimistic people out there, watch out!

c-ya

 

[Mayday911]

What is the "official" number of furloughs at ACA vs. the rumored amount?

I have heard in the neighborhood of 300-350...I hope that info is false!!

Mayday

 

[walkthasky]

officially...

Their are 96 on furlough and 101 on deck waiting to hear when. That 101 can change drastically in the next few months for the good or better, and hopefully our 96 will come back soon.

 

[C-5 MEM]

Walk,

I am home for a little bit. We are being told that we will be flying the rebuilding Iraq. That will be until Nov 03 and then in 04 we tranistion into the C-5. Where are you on reserve?

Terry

 

[surplus1]

So, don't say we lowered the bar for everyone else.

I assume that ACA is in the same sinking boat that AWAC is in and I bet the outcome is the same. I could be wrong.

flyer

Don't worry, I'm not going to say you lowered the bar for everyone else. You have only lowered it for yourselves.

With all due respect, I though it was UAL that was in the "sinking boat". I'm just not smart enough to guess how lowering rates at AWAC or ACA could possibly plug the leaks in UAL's boat.

If that boat is going to sink, it will do so no matter if AWAC and ACA fly for free. In my opinion, whether you lower your rates to the basement or not makes no difference. If UAL wants to contract with Mesa, they will do so regardless of your rates. If they put all their eggs in the Mesa basket that won't make UAL survive either. It will just muckup their feed.

Sorry, I just don't understand the logic of the whole thing. Guess I'm stupid. My bad.

 

[Mayday911]

The reason the current UAX carriers had to rebid was because United spent millions of dollars on an outside consulting group to help them maximize profits, thats right profits, from the Express network. So this consulting group came up with a scheme to help us all (use sarcastic tone). United was the first network carrier to pay their regionals a fee per departure, that is now history. The new bid is based on block hour. Within in this bid per block hour are 7 line item bids. They are: Pilot costs, F/A costs, mx costs, a/c operating costs, profit margin, duration, and something else I forgot. United is going to take the whole package and asses who will make the most money for them.

With pilot costs a direct item in the bid, there is no way that any of the current carriers could compete w/ the newcomers to the party. The consulting group specifically invited lower paid carriers to the party in order to get the current carriers to "get in line" with what United is willing to pay.

TSA, Chatauqua, Mesa, and one other (nobody knows for sure who that is) are all lower paid across the board, not just the pilots. From what I understand the CHQ pilots are in negotiations right now, and TSA's pilot contract is up in a couple of years.

AWAC is at an advantage to most of the other regionals bidding on the contract. Since they are privately owned they can bid on a lower profit margin than the publically held companies. From what the ALPA attorney says that is a very significant number. While times were good AWAC was making a 4.8% profit, while Skywest and ACA were in the neighborhood of 15%. This is why the new AWAC pilot contract LOA did not have to come down to the level of Mesa. 12 days off, scheduled trip and duty rigs (not look back), 75 hour guarantee for all pilots, plus pay rates still 5 dollars higher and hour, etc.

Just passing on the info...good luck to everyone in negotiations right now, I hope you are not hurt too bad by the new AWAC agreement. Think of it this way...Mesa set the new industry standard and then AWAC raised it a little, now its your turn (Okay maybe that doesn't help at all).

Mayday.

 

[avrodriver]

I'd like to agree with you.........

I've been trying to stay out of all this but I wouldn't call us hero's by a long shot. While Mesa may have set the standard for current contracts, we just set the standard that it is acceptable for our hardly earned contracts to be picked apart for the good of "the man". Sorry ACA....I wish you guys the best, hopefully you can show all the guys over here what a little backbone can get ya. I'm not bashing my fellow pilot group, I know why people voted yes, but nevertheless I'm a little disappointed. Oh well time to face the music and start our 8 year (plus two) sentence. Regionals su.ck!

 

[rightrudder]

Mayday 911, that was a great overview of the situation facing ACA, AWAC and Skywest. I think a lot of folks (Surplus) on the outside don't understand the whole picture here.

 

[walkthasky]

other carrier...

I believe the other carrier was BigSky, but not sure.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Like walkthasky said in another post...blah, blah, blah.