ACA CRJ Training

[pilotboy]

I was a new hire at ACA from an interview in July. I was appauled at the training at the airline. Nothing was organized and the tone was not conducive to learning , specially for a new hire with no jet time. Im an bitter about the program and i know many many many FO's and Capts who also share my feelings on the subject. As a matter a fact many of them told me to change airplanes as soon as i told them i was in the CRJ for training. They admited that the program had many shortcomings. One shortcoming repeatedly heard from others in the airline was the treatment of the trainees from the Senior CRJ instructors. I personally was not taught just evaluated time and time again. What is a training program if they don't teach? And for my final sim ride i was put with 2 instructors one of which was my capt. When i was flying i would ask the captain to do something and he purposly comitted errors and then i was blamed. Have any of you ever gone though this experience??? I can say i had a terrible experience. Please tell me theres hope in the regionals.

 

[Sabre60]

I was a new hire at ACA from an interview in July. I was appauled at the training at the airline. Nothing was organized and the tone was not conducive to learning , specially for a new hire with no jet time. Im an bitter about the program and i know many many many FO's and Capts who also share my feelings on the subject. As a matter a fact many of them told me to change airplanes as soon as i told them i was in the CRJ for training. They admited that the program had many shortcomings. One shortcoming repeatedly heard from others in the airline was the treatment of the trainees from the Senior CRJ instructors. I personally was not taught just evaluated time and time again. What is a training program if they don't teach? And for my final sim ride i was put with 2 instructors one of which was my capt. When i was flying i would ask the captain to do something and he purposly comitted errors and then i was blamed. Have any of you ever gone though this experience??? I can say i had a terrible experience. Please tell me theres hope in the regionals.

By all means you are NOT alone. Check out my post in the thread ACA vs. ASA career advice. Some of my MIDWAY buddies had experiences similar to what you are describing.

 

[terryhfly]

I have just got done with the ground school and CPT for the CRJ at Air Wisconsin and I thought it was the best ground school I have been through. It was all computer based with a review with the instructor in the morning. I feel well prepared for the sim. Sorry to here about your bad training program.

Terry
AWAC RJ FO

 

[Timebuilder]

Thanks for the heads up, pilotboy. I was about to take a position with a school that allegedly feeds pilot applicants to ACA from an aiport just north of Dulles. I wasn't able to find a place to live for under 1200 dollars a month. Maybe it's good that I didn't.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience, and we all owe a debt to those who share that kind of info here.

 

[Cornelius]

Unfortunately, during eval flights, proficiency checks, and the like for an FO. The IP and/or check airman will always try to do something wrong, like deviating from altitude etc when you are briefing approach or shutting the wrong engine down.

Its standard practice. But if you experienced situations where your IP or checkairman was constantly screwing things up, then that may be a little overboard.

 

[pilotboy]

Thanks for the replys guys!! im glad i could be a source of information to you aswell. To all of you good luck and keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down.

 

[Andy Neill]

May I ask what your employment plans are now. As grim as it was, it seems you have let go of the bird in the hand during some thin economic times after successfully completing training. You DID successfully complete training didn't you?

 

[AZaviator]

similar experience

Pilotboy, I had a very similar experience as you did, however mine was in ground school at a different regional. The instructor I had was cool as a person, but horrible as a teacher. Being only his 2nd ground school class to teach and being pulled offline flying a completely different aircraft, his knowledge was very weak. Our class was lucky in that we had 5 Captain upgrades in class which really helped teaching the class. It got to the point that students would ask the Captain upgrades questions and wouldn't ask the instructor becuase he would either give a bogus answer, or just didn't know the material too well. The end result, 4 people ended up resigning, one washed out. I decided to resign the same day I would have been furloughed. On a side note, a friend of mine began class two weeks earlier than me, and had a great experience with a teacher who had over 20 years teaching experience on the same aircraft. Everyone in his class made it through ground school without any problems. Ofcourse its ultimately up to you to put forth the effort during training, however I've also learned your instructors can make a HUGE difference in ground school and sim training.

As Andy Neill asked, I'd also like to know what did you do? Did you finish training at ACA or do something else?
Best of luck

 

[pilotboy]

Well to anwser your question.. There are 11 sim modules and then the checkride. I got to the 11 sim and then i decided to quit because it just seemed that everything i did was wrong to them. I know im a good pilot and i was told that i was going pretty good from other people but i thought they were going to let me go so i quit instead. I didn't see any other way out. thanks for your resposes guys! goodluck

 

[pilotboy]

azaviator

hey azaviator, thanks for the response and also i'd like to know what your up to these days. Are you working ? Did you get on with another regional?? please let me know thanks

 

[750driver]

Pilotboy,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, and quite frankly, I am appalled because it isn't the first time I've heard this story. I worked for ACA between 1993-96 and things were much different then. Training was a great experience for us, and a large percentage of the pilots made it through.

Regardless of the past, DO NOT allow this one bad experience to hinder your performance the next time around. It's a done deal now, and you know you are capable of greater things. You made a choice based on the information and circumstances at the time, and now you will need to deal with them, but make no mistake, opportunity will present itself again.

It's up to you as to how you will handle it the next time around. Learn from this experience and use it to your advantage.

Regards,

750driver

 

[pilotboy]

750driver,

hey , thanks for the positive news. It means alot to me ! And im sure to play it differently next time.

 

[Bebop]

Pilotboy,

Don't worry about this. ACA is not the cream of the crop.
You will find much better employment than that pilot beater company.

I was at Comair during the strike and interviewed with a few regionals. ACA was the absolute worst! The dudes conducting the interviews were just so smug. Complete Aholes in my book.

You will find a place to fly that will appreciate you as a person and a pilot.

For you brainwashed ACA ra ra's, yes I was offered a job. Told them to go to hell.

Pilotboy, when you get 2500 total and 500 multi give exec jet a call. It was the smartest thing I ever did. Hang in there bud!

 

[pilotboy]

Bebop!,


Hey thanks alot buddy. Im glad im not alone when it comes to what i think about ACA. And as far as the hours....? I will get the hours eventually and i'll work in a place they do value the pilots. Thanks again for the positive news! take care .

 

[Jboss]

Bebop

Sure ACA's got its problems, but I think your "experience" there is rare. Most people consider the interview to be one of the most laid back and friendly interviews around. Maybe you just had a personality conflict with the interviewers. In any case, telling them to "go to hell" either literaly or figuratively might not have been the best of ideas. Never burn bridges in this business, cause what goes around comes around. Good luck with that attitude.

 

[Cappy]

"Well to anwser your question.. There are 11 sim modules and then the checkride. I got to the 11 sim and then i decided to quit because it just seemed that everything i did was wrong to them. I know im a good pilot and i was told that i was going pretty good from other people but i thought they were going to let me go so i quit instead. I didn't see any other way out. thanks for your resposes guys! goodluck"

You expect us to believe that after reaching sim 11, the one before the checkride, you turned and said "I quit"! Two points here - one, if the IP let you make it to sim 11 he/she must have felt you were prepared for the checkride and two, no one likes or wants a quitter. What, are you going to quit on your your crew and passengers because it's "just not fair that we lost an engine before v1...waaaaaaaaaaaaa"!

With an attitude like yours I'm glad your not at ACA or any airline for that matter.

Fly safely, but don't whine about it.

 

[pilotboy]

Excuse me Cappy


But remember it was I that was there and I was the one that was training at ACA. I don't recall you being there to notice my attitude. Anyways, I have a good attitude and all i want to be is a pilot. I don;t think you should be bashing people here for theres attitude when you don't really know them. Im going to quote here : "when you've got nothing nice to say say nothing at all" this applies to you Cappy. And actually my V1 cuts were very good thank you very much! And another thing...! Im not whining in here im just sharing my experience with others so they know about ACA.. I am not the only one who feels this way about them.

 

[Cappy]

Again I will restate my concerns here:

one - You, and I mean you alone and not the IP, decided that it was not worth your while to continue with one more sim and a checkride...and for what? How many seniority numbers did you lose? Let me see here...if you were hired in July 2001 right now you would be half-way up the CRJ FO list at ACA and able to hold Captain in the 328 Jet within 12 months. And you expect me and others to believe that you "quit" on your terms?

two - Again I say, why are you such a quitter when there are others willing to stick it out for the right seat of a great airplane? For those who wanted the right seat at ACA I am sorry that pilotboy took it only to quit at the moment of truth.

Tell you what, you send me a private e-mail with your name and I'll take a look at your training folder and e-mail you with what I found. Sounds fair to me.

Yes Pilotboy, the training department was going through a very difficullt transition to a new facility, new sims, new instructors and to add to it all a record number of new-hires you can see, and ACA new, that problems were bound to occur. Given that it just doesn't make any sense to me that you would get that far in ANY training program if the company didn't feel you could make it.

This is not meant as a personal slam Pilotboy but I have tell you and all reading this post that the training at ACA has dramatically improved and we will be hiring soon...quitters need not apply.

Fly Safe

 

[AirBoard]

pilotboy,

With all due respects I think you already know what a big mistake you made. Cappy is right on all points, but I can relate to the whole training mess you experienced. I was a new hire late 00'. I spent 8 months on a Dornier 328 training 'vacation'. However, I approached the whole experinece in a much more postive tone, something that's is certainly paying off now.

First off, our class also had an inept instructor but the class pulled together. As a new FO you are trained to proficiency (unless your totally lost) - you should have known this and taken the pressure off yourself. With this in mind I'm still a little suspicious as to why you decided to leave at the end.

Secondly, as time wore on I knew I had a seniority number and was getting paid (FO pay after 75 days here). Yeah, I was losing out on time building but seniority is EVERYTHING and that would determine when I go CA in the end anyway.

As far as putting the company down for your training experience - easy target. It certainly had it's problems but I would never have left unless I had another offer on the table. Many have left in the middle of training before but only to go right into another ground school somehwere else. Of course, the industry was still going strong last summer maybe you though you had another option.

Bottom line, ACA is a great company, along with ASA, Comair, and Skywest. These would be my top choices. You want to make minimal company changes in your career for seniority sakes. Therefore, you go with the strong and growing companies - of course no one knows what will happen down the road you have to form an educated opinion. Leaving ACA because of some difficulties that could have been smoothed over time is certainly not the answer.

Go into your next ground school headstrong and with a positive outlook. Nobody's going to smother you with praise on your performance - you just have to get through. Cause once your on-line it's a great time!

 

[Cappy]

Bebop!,


Hey thanks alot buddy. Im glad im not alone when it comes to what i think about ACA. And as far as the hours....? I will get the hours eventually and i'll work in a place they do value the pilots. Thanks again for the positive news! take care .

So you think you are going to find a company out there that "values" its pilots? On the outside that might appear so like at Southwest. But they have their problems too. And dont even get me started on Comair. The management and polots have hated each other for years. In all honesty you are shown value only through the company's willingness to abide by your current CBA.

Please don't take offence at my previous posts. I admit I might have sounded too harsh. Consider mustering the courage to give ACA one more try. Just because it did not work out the first time does not mean you will not be re-hired. And the latest hiring for this year is a minimum of 250...maybe 350. Once here you will find a company and pilot group working hard to make all areas better. It will only be as good as make it.

Post Safely!

 

[gump88]

Pilotboy, just my opinion, but I think you made a bad career move by quitting. You will have to explain this at your next job interview. And as a previous poster noted, FOs are trained to proficiency. Wow dude, you made it to the last sim without washing out. I would have rather been washed out for trying than to quit because I didn't think I would pass. Initial training has always been a group effort at places I have been. Everybody pulls together so that EVERYBODY makes it through. Where you might be weak in electrics and strong in hydraulics, another classmate may have the strengths to help you through. CRM begins on day 1!

Sorry, just my .02.
gump

 

[MetroSheriff]

Pilotboy, just my opinion, but I think you made a bad career move by quitting. You will have to explain this at your next job interview. And as a previous poster noted, FOs are trained to proficiency. Wow dude, you made it to the last sim without washing out. I would have rather been washed out for trying than to quit because I didn't think I would pass. Initial training has always been a group effort at places I have been. Everybody pulls together so that EVERYBODY makes it through. Where you might be weak in electrics and strong in hydraulics, another classmate may have the strengths to help you through. CRM begins on day 1!

Sorry, just my .02.
gump

There has GOT to be more to this story. Why would you get up and walk out right before a checkride. If you made it that far it is because the IP thought you could make it.

 

[pilotboy]

To fill in the missing link. I quit because i was told that i wasn't going to make it through. The thing was that in my privious attempt on Sim 11 i did everything to standards but towards the end i messed up on steep turns, and stalls with ONLY small 50 or so deviations on altitudes. Then on the second attempt the instructor was know to be one of the harsh dudes at the place and he told me right off that i would be doing EVERYTHING over again. I did everything to standards but my captain ( another instructor) kept on messing up . And finally when i asked for a specific speed he gave me the wrong one. Even after questioning the speed 3 times on final. After the sim i was told to meet with the director of training and told that i would be let go. Well, i thought to myself...... i've given it the best i have and this is how i get treated?! well i no longer want to work here so i quit..... i think leaving a job is far better than getting fired? don't you? well i have NO REGRETS for doing that...

 

[gump88]

one more thing:

11 sim sessions???? wow, thats 44 hours in the sim for one airplane. We only had 8 sessions at Bombardier for RJ initial and I thought that was more than enough.

I smell something fishy..........

gump

 

[gump88]

50 foot altitude deviations on steep turns and stalls is not a busting item. Know the PTS!

 

[pilotboy]

Gump

i don't know what you have up your butt man but you sound pretty angry at something. Anyways, i know my "PTS" and i know what i can do with an airplane.. i know as well that most other instructors including myself will give a pilot more than one chance before failing him or her on any one item. Again gump, i know you angry at something or someone but im not to blame for that... if you don't have something constructive to say shut your ***king trap. I would sincerely hate anyone like you in the cockpit . you sound like the type that thinks he knows everything. Imagine you with an experienced captain. Or even worst YOU AS A CAPTAIN ONE DAY. Oh My God i feel sorry for the indvidual sitting next to you.!!

 

[gump88]

Pilotboy,

Maybe the root of the problem is starting to surface. You do not like to be corrected and you have an attitude. My friend, I have been a Captain on the CL 65 and I'm sure you would enjoy flying with me. I think that you need to take responsibility for what happened. Its not the instructor's fault or the ACA training program. YOU are responsible for getting yourself through. Ever heard the old saying "cooperate and graduate"? I think that possibly your inexperience and bad attitude had a LOT to do with your situation.

Please understand that my intentions are not to put you down; only to analyze the situation as an unbiased fellow aviator. I mean no offense, and quite frankly, if you can't handle the heat then stay out of the kitchen.

I wish you much success in the future,

gump

 

[Mickey757]

Pilotboys back ground;

Flown--Cessna, Piper's

Ratings--Comm, MEI

TTL Time--1,500hrs

While I think that quiting at the end of sim training was a very unwise decision on his part, You also have to look at what the commuters are doing by putting some one with his experience level into The CRJ, Which is the equivalent of a "minnie" 757! Add to that a lousy IP and a immature pilot ( experience wise, and yes even personality wise! ) Even Miss Cleo could have seen the out come of this, In essence no one wins. ACA is out a whole lot of money, and someone is out of a job, and possibly a problem with future employers.
Not slaming you ,But you have to make decisions that will be with you for the rest of your career, So they had better be "sound decisions"

Take it a a learning experience and go forward with your career. Don't look back, and never give less than 110% for your self!

Best to you!

 

[Patriot328]

Pilotboy:


I have several friends that fly the CRJ here, some of them former interns with 600hrs. Guess what, they all made it! One busted his checkride, but retook it and passed. It's all about attitude. Despite how hard they make it, hundreds and hundreds of people before you, some with less time and less experience than you, have made it.

You had an instructor that was hard.. ya know what.. tough shyt, welcome to the real world. I had three different feds for my type ride and oral in the FRJ (3.5 hrs of oral, 2.0 hrs of sim checkride, and 2.0 hrs of airplane check ride.. regular ole type ride, not a train to proficiency ride.. 1kt over and you bust). Quitting was a bad move. You're going to have to explain why YOU QUIT in another interview (and bashing the training dept at ACA will not go over well at another interview because they will think you are putting the blame on someone else). I wouldn't want to have to explain why I quit a regional like that.

 

[pilotboy]

well your right... perhaps i do not necessarily like to be corrected all the time. And i don't like to live in a crach pad for 7 months with another 12 people. Not to mention the fact that it was the first time away from home ever in my life. And living on $150 a week. Of course my moral and my attitude wasn't the best it had ever been. But im not whineing here.. i know its not easy and next time around.. (that is if there will be a next time) i will have to learn how to sucessfully sacrifice alot in my life. Pretty much everything i have at that. But , i understand this is a part of what ive choosen to do. Further more i admit i didn't have an attitude conductive to learning. You got to the bottom of the problem there. Thanks for your insites