ACA CRJ Training Redux

DarnNearaJet

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2002
Posts
174
Total Time
5000
It pays to be informed:

Just saw in the IAD Crew Room the latest and greatest CRJ stats. I don't know if it was disseminated by the Company or ALPA but it had the names of every CA and FO who went through CRJ training from late May to late June, including a code for the type of checkride failure (Oral, Practical) as well as completion dates and the number of PC's.

The numbers aren't pretty. 50% of the Captains failed a checkride/oral. Two that passed were going into the training department. 30% of the FO's failed a checkride/oral. (One resigned and one was terminated.)

The Company only counts a failure as someone who doesn't make it through the training at all (ie: goes back to his/her old seat.) So this will be officially "spun" to lower numbers in the next DO's newsletter.

Just when you heard things were getting better.
 

Beechnut

Ndugu's Foster Dad
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
714
Total Time
1+
ACA Posts your failures in the CREW ROOM!!?

THAT sounds like a great organization!

S.
 
Last edited:

j41driver

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Posts
1,300
Total Time
11000
That's what I was thinking also. If it was ALPA's doing they certainly should not have disclosed the names. WTF??
 

trainerjet

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Posts
507
Total Time
8000+
Of course it was ALPA. I mean, isn't ALPA to blame for everything that is wrong at the regionals?

It COULDN'T have been the company, could it??? NAH! HAD to be ALPA.
 

Little Deuce

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
340
Total Time
14,300
Check Rides

IF those numbers are true, the Director of Training should be man enough to resign or be terminated.

You do not need to be on the property to know that the problem is not with the trainees.

And they train under AQP?

Disgusting.
 

Pilot877

Banned
Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Posts
220
Total Time
~3500
OUCH! I start training next week, I guess I am in for it, huh?
 

AZaviator

El Capitan
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
623
Total Time
6100
Is there anyone on this board who has been through ACA's training in the past few months, regardless of aircraft?
If so, what was your opinion of the training program.

Seems like a great airline, but makes you think twice before applying, after hearing something like this.
 

gump88

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
170
Total Time
10000+
Re: Check Rides

Little Duece said:
IF those numbers are true, the Director of Training should be man enough to resign or be terminated.

You do not need to be on the property to know that the problem is not with the trainees.

And they train under AQP?

Disgusting.

Little D, I agree!! Folks, the CL 65 is not difficult. I have 2000 hours in the beast. If a dumb ole country boy like me can get it than anyone can. I have not been through ACA's program but these statistics should raise a red flag. I do not believe the quality of their newhires is the problem. I hope the FAA is monitoring this situation. I remember when I was at Midway, they monitored the pass/fail rates very closely as one of the gauges of our training program.

Those of you that are about to begin ACA's program: Know the limitations, memory items, and SOPs (call-outs) cold before you start day 1. Pull out some approaches and do some chair flying at home using the appropriate call-outs. And one last thing to remember, cooperate and graduate!! Leave all bad attitudes at home.

I wish all of you good luck with your training.

gump
 

zkmayo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Posts
342
Total Time
9000+
I went thru 328j training a little while ago. The training was very good, plenty of sims, good instructors. most prepared id been for a checkride at ACA.

advice for newhires: know limitations, profiles and callouts cold before first day of class like someone else was saying. You cant get into any of the sims w/o knowing the calls like the back of your hand and expect to do well.

All programs are supposed to be AQP by the end of summer--right now only 41 is. CRJ still has its problems but they have gotten alot better than a couple years ago. i hope that isnt true about the checkride stats being posted in the crew room although i saw a copy of it floating around on line.

hope this helps.
 

trainerjet

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Posts
507
Total Time
8000+
zkmayo said:
advice for newhires: know limitations, profiles and callouts cold before first day of class

Is this for real?? In twenty years of airline flying, I have NEVER been expected to know limitations, profiles and callouts cold BEFORE THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS. Where are these hew hires supposed to get this information BEFORE THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS? As an instructor/check airman I would never expect this of students. Knowing this stuff before showing up for sim training, yes...but the first day of class??

If this is how the training department is run, then it is in serious trouble. I would think LONG AND HARD before accepting employment at a company such as this.
 

Pilot877

Banned
Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Posts
220
Total Time
~3500
Ok, I'm starting next week and was told I would be in the CRJ. How would I get the call outs?? Does anybody know a website that would have this info? (I already looked and cant find one.) Any help from you CL65 pilots would be GREATLY appreciated.
 

Beechnut

Ndugu's Foster Dad
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
714
Total Time
1+
I'm thinking this "know your call-outs before the first day of class" idea isn't the rule. If it was, Pilot877 wouldn't be shooting in the dark on a public message board trying to find the information for class next week.

Besides, what if you learn the procedure wrong while sitting at home before your first day? ...Law of Primacy anyone?


S.
 

gump88

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
170
Total Time
10000+
You guys are tough!! The reason I suggested to get a head start on the info prior to class is three-fold. First, it will ease the tension associated with learning a new a/c at a new company. Second, it will show the instructors that you are HIGHLY motivated to stay employed with their organization. And third, more beer drinkin time!!!!

Seriously, if everyone says the training is so hard, why not get a head start? I agree with Trainerjet that it should not be necessary, but why not ease the stress in a training environment that has a reputation for being difficult, i.e. ACA?

I have some old study notes from Midway's CL 65 program if anyone is interested. Send me a PM and I will be glad to shoot some stuff in the mail for you. The callouts would not be applicable for ACA, but the limitations are the same!

Cheers,
gump
 

Cappy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Posts
144
Total Time
13,000
trainerjet said:


Is this for real?? In twenty years of airline flying, I have NEVER been expected to know limitations, profiles and callouts cold BEFORE THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS. Where are these hew hires supposed to get this information BEFORE THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS?

Whoever stated that anyone needs to know the calls and limitations before class is incorrect. Besides...how could you? There is only one question that needs to be answered...is the "Training Stats" memo accurate? As most of you may know, pilots can be pretty gullible with anything appearing legit. I will contact the training manager for the fine people participating in this thread and attempt to clarify its validity.

ACA did have trouble until about a year ago when an overhaul was initiated. Right now only two of the original cadre are present. The others are elsewhere (flying the line or gone). The memory items have been reduced to about seven, the QRH is new. Even the flows and checklists have been re-written for how the line pilots fly. All weight and balance including performance will be done via ACARS this year. That's the good news.

The hard part is that you still have to study! Consider this, in my class there were 8 CA's and 12 FO's. Myself and two other CA's studied through ground school together and offered to help any of the new-hires with any problems at any time. We even asked them to sit in after class for a few hours to go over profiles, flows and other general stuff. Guess how many stayed after class? Not one! The usual response was "I don't need to study, they'll give me everything!" Of those about 3 washed out and two more suffered initial failures on the ride (or oral). All of us that studied had no trouble whatsoever. In fact, it was the best check I've ever had.

As far as that memo is concerned I'll let you all know within 24 hrs what I find out.

Fly Safe.
 

trainerjet

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Posts
507
Total Time
8000+
Gump,

I agree with everything you are saying. I quoted "zkmayo", who apparantly works there since he admitted going through 328 jet training recently, as saying you should have all that stuff "down cold" before the first day of class. I just think that's unrealistic. Like I said before. Where is a new hire going to get that information? Accurate, company information? Before the first day of class? I'm hoping he meant before the first day of sim training. That makes more sense. And I would agree 100% with that. You MUST know the profiles, callouts and limitations before showing up for sim.
 

gump88

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
170
Total Time
10000+
You are right trainerjet!

Unless they know someone at the company, that stuff is hard to get ahead of time. But, you guys need to know it prior to SIM!!!!


gump
 

s.o.sJTB

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Posts
3,806
Total Time
5000
I had a limitations test that i was required to take the first day of class as a new hire at my airline. It wasnt pass or bye-bye, more like "did you go over the material that was sent before class?"
 

RJPilott

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Posts
531
Total Time
some
ACA will not give you any material prior to the first day of class. You do not need to know anything but what your experience shows prior to the first day of class. You SHOULD know flows, limitations, SOP, memory items etc prior to the first day of CPT class (which is after two weeks of indoc and two weeks of systems and you WILL have the materials). Hope this helps...
 

Pilot877

Banned
Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Posts
220
Total Time
~3500
Actually, I would like to thank all of you guys for putting in your $.02 worth. Sure is good to hear the opinions of those who have burned some kerosene before. I appreciate the help!
 

j41driver

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Posts
1,300
Total Time
11000
trainerjet said:
Of course it was ALPA. I mean, isn't ALPA to blame for everything that is wrong at the regionals?

It COULDN'T have been the company, could it??? NAH! HAD to be ALPA.

All right dude, calm down. Maybe I should have said that the names of the pilots should not have been posted regardless of who actually posted them. Is that politically correct enough for you?
 
Top