ABXAir to lower the bar?? Say it ain't so.

Fly Astar Jets

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Yep.
In the past, I have applauded the pilots of ABX and their leadership of 1224 for holding the line when it came to DHL flying on this and other boards. But this is from John Grabers (ABXAir Mgt.) "Info Line" dated March 5'th '09 to the employees of ABXAir:


"We talked about the economy’s impact on the worldwide ACMI marketplace, and how we have to lower our costs to be more competitive. I told everyone that we are going to reduce pay in many of our airline positions to better align the compensation in those jobs with the environment we find ourselves in today.
We are going to do that for two reasons – to attract more ACMI business, and to show DHL that we can lower our costs and give them a cost structure that allows them to stay in Wilmington, using ABX Air to fly for them, for a long time to come."

I understand that the pilots of ABX are under the gun as their co. restructures it's self to operate in the ACMI world. But 1224 has repeatedly said that DHL flying was not to be included in any pay rate discussion. Has that attitude changed?

I know this is a sensitive subject and I'm not trying to flame here ("ie" do a Trixy). I believe this is a legitimate question since this was put out in the open by ABXAir Mgt. to all ABXAir employees, and not an unfounded accusation.
 
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abxaviator

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You quote mgmt. propaganda, then claim not to be flaming!?! Really?
 

TWA

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Stand by, the popcorn is still in the microwave...
 

nitefr8dog

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In the past, I have applauded the pilots of ABX and their leadership of 1224 for holding the line when it came to DHL flying on this and other boards. But this is from John Grabers (ABXAir Mgt.) "Info Line" dated March 5'th '09 to the employees of ABXAir:


"We talked about the economy’s impact on the worldwide ACMI marketplace, and how we have to lower our costs to be more competitive. I told everyone that we are going to reduce pay in many of our airline positions to better align the compensation in those jobs with the environment we find ourselves in today.
We are going to do that for two reasons – to attract more ACMI business, and to show DHL that we can lower our costs and give them a cost structure that allows them to stay in Wilmington, using ABX Air to fly for them, for a long time to come."

I understand that the pilots of ABX are under the gun as their co. restructures it's self to operate in the ACMI world. But 1224 has repeatedly said that DHL flying was not to be included in any pay rate discussion. Has that attitude changed?


I know this is a sensitive subject and I'm not trying to flame here ("ie" do a Trixy). I believe this is a legitimate question since this was put out in the open by ABXAir Mgt. to all ABXAir employees, and not an unfounded accusation.
FAJ, do you really think you would be the first to find out on a message board, before the membership has heard about it, voted on anything etc, etc? The info line you continue to listen to is for the weak minded. The pilot group does not listen to it it is all BS.
 

727flier

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So the ABX MEC are "NOT" going to take or offer up concessions without membership ratification? I thought your MEC had already offered concessions to management and it was just in limbo for now. Just curious is all, not trying to start any crap.
 

abxaviator

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First, we're not ALPO, so don't have an MEC. Second, ANY change to the CBA will require ratification.
 

Fly Astar Jets

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Yep.
If I have offended anyone I do apologize.

Every ABX pilot I have spoken to has said they will not capitulate on DHL payscales. Unfortunately, I haven't been doing much of anything lately since Xmas at ILN so I have been out of the loop.

I do believe that when anyone from Mgt opens their mouth, it is to spew BS. But Graber didn't even try to be cryptic in his message, so it caught me off guard.

With respect,
FAJ
 

DC8CRIVER

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"ABX starts the race to the bottom!" ... is what Trixie would say on every message board out there were she not flying for Joe Hete.


I have more respect for our colleagues across the field than to lie about them. I will not just assume that they would take pay cuts and until I hear it from one of them and have it confirmed I would never post something so slanderous and insulting. I'm pretty sure no pilot over here would do that. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are no ABX pilots that would do that either ... except our gal Trixie!

How about it, Trix? Still a bit shy or are you ready to "upgrade to the left seat" and apologize?

didn't think so
 

aviatrix767

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A lot.
"ABX starts the race to the bottom!" ... is what Trixie would say on every message board out there were she not flying for Joe Hete.


I have more respect for our colleagues across the field than to lie about them. I will not just assume that they would take pay cuts and until I hear it from one of them and have it confirmed I would never post something so slanderous and insulting. I'm pretty sure no pilot over here would do that. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are no ABX pilots that would do that either ... except our gal Trixie!

How about it, Trix? Still a bit shy or are you ready to "upgrade to the left seat" and apologize?

didn't think so
Wow... you are finally catching on to this!!! :D No, I am not going to apologize - have no reason to apologize. (Sorry to the rest, but I'm bored and nothing amuses more than watching these morons get so flustered over something so petty...) BTW, what's this about an upgrade to left seat? How do you know that I'm not already there? :)

Oh yeah, and I can tell you that I may be many things (yeah, I'm opening the door wide open on that one... lol) but I can tell you that SHY is not one of them. :p
 

shooter

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I don’t know if you were flaming here or not FAJ. It sure seems like it, but I will believe you when you said you were not. I don’t know if you have access to the hangar talks like you have the Graber Info lines you quoted. If you do, then you will have heard that ABX is not in negotiations with DHL for their work. They would like to, but I bet they would like to have a lot of things. It is my understanding that the costs are being lined up with related ACMI organizations ABX will be competing with. That is the pay reductions the rest of the work force will be getting come May 4th. Now, I am sure ABX will take that ACMI cost structure and try to sell it to DHL as they would any other ACMI customer they are trying to get work from. But a deliberate cost reduction for DHL work is not what the future of ABX has in front of it and DHL is not talking with ABX about it. If the pilots can negotiate a deal with ABX that has a "different" pay rate for DHL, then good for them. But as far as the company, they have to forget DHL and work on being competitive on an ACMI level or face closure.

You have no say in the future of ABX. So as far as if you have an opinion of my working at an ACMI ABX or being unemployed you can bugger off. I can show you examples right now, on demand if you wish, of former CEO’s applying for $12/hr janitor jobs, 6 figure a year engineers applying for cable installer jobs, and masters degrees applying at McDonalds. If I have a chance to work for the company I enjoyed working for over the years, prior to DHL destroying what it touched, I’ll take it. Or, at least look at it while I apply for that fry job next to the guy with the MBA.
 

Fly Astar Jets

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Yep.
I don’t know if you were flaming here or not FAJ. It sure seems like it, but I will believe you when you said you were not.
Fair enough Shooter. Everyone needs to be skeptical on public boards. But I do appreciate the benefit of the doubt.



I don’t know if you have access to the hangar talks like you have the Graber Info lines you quoted.
Hanger Talks, only sporadically in the past. Lately, not at all.



You have no say in the future of ABX. So as far as if you have an opinion of my working at an ACMI ABX or being unemployed you can bugger off.
From reading your posts these past years Shooter, I can tell that you and alot of other ABXA folks have alot of pride in their Co. just as I have in DHL (the Red and White DHLAirways :D ) before DP:smash: came in and and mocked it all up. You're right that I have no say in what you do or the future of ABXA. That was not the intent of my post. My post was a reaction and question as to what I believed was a paradigm shift in negotiating posture based on Graber's message to the troops.



If I have a chance to work for the company I enjoyed working for over the years, prior to DHL destroying what it touched, I’ll take it. Or, at least look at it while I apply for that fry job next to the guy with the MBA.
And it looks like you will get that chance to see what it looks like. That's a good thing shooter. Can't say that about my lot in this show. But I'll at least I'll have senority over you next to that guy with the MBA at the fry station.:rolleyes:



FAJ
 

Whistlin' Dan

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...I am sure ABX will take that ACMI cost structure and try to sell it to DHL as they would any other ACMI customer they are trying to get work from. But a deliberate cost reduction for DHL work is not what the future of ABX has in front of it and DHL is not talking with ABX about it. If the pilots can negotiate a deal with ABX that has a "different" pay rate for DHL, then good for them. But as far as the company, they have to forget DHL and work on being competitive on an ACMI level or face closure.
The message (assuming it is accurate) seems pretty clear in that the cost reductions he's asking for are to remain competitive in the ACMI market as a whole, not just to keep DHL's business. If so, it's the right move for him to make. There's enough DHL business out there to keep 10-15 airplanes working. Whose airplanes those are going to be is anybody's guess, but ABX certainly has the right fleet. If sharpening their pencils now keeps some of their guys working (and their capital assets producing revenue) for the next 2 years, what's wrong with that?

1,000 hrs/yr at $110/hr is a lot better than NO hours per year at $234/hr.
 

shooter

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Fair enough Shooter. Everyone needs to be skeptical on public boards. But I do appreciate the benefit of the doubt.



Hanger Talks, only sporadically in the past. Lately, not at all.



From reading your posts these past years Shooter, I can tell that you and alot of other ABXA folks have alot of pride in their Co. just as I have in DHL (the Red and White DHLAirways :D ) before DP:smash: came in and and mocked it all up. You're right that I have no say in what you do or the future of ABXA. That was not the intent of my post. My post was a reaction and question as to what I believed was a paradigm shift in negotiating posture based on Graber's message to the troops.



And it looks like you will get that chance to see what it looks like. That's a good thing shooter. Can't say that about my lot in this show. But I'll at least I'll have senority over you next to that guy with the MBA at the fry station.:rolleyes:



FAJ

I just want you to know that during the hangar talks it was made clear, very clear, that ABX and DHL are not in negotiations about flying their stuff. That leaves ABX just trying to restructure under an ACMI market. If that includes pay cuts, as it has for all of us not represented, it is not lowering anything since the DHL work is not even in negotiations. My guess would be that they come out of it with the best ACMI contract in the market. At least I hope.
 

shooter

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The message (assuming it is accurate) seems pretty clear in that the cost reductions he's asking for are to remain competitive in the ACMI market as a whole, not just to keep DHL's business. If so, it's the right move for him to make. There's enough DHL business out there to keep 10-15 airplanes working. Whose airplanes those are going to be is anybody's guess, but ABX certainly has the right fleet. If sharpening their pencils now keeps some of their guys working (and their capital assets producing revenue) for the next 2 years, what's wrong with that?

1,000 hrs/yr at $110/hr is a lot better than NO hours per year at $234/hr.

Thats the way I look at it. Too old and over qualified for burgers, nothing but aviation (some of which can transfer easily enough) but the market is saturated. Show me what my hand is and at least I know if I need to start looking. Or if it is doable, and live to fight another day when things turn around, all the better. IMO

Plus, I really like this kind of flight planning. Europe, Asia, Iceland, Caribbean, Mexico, South and Central America....others in the pipe line I hope. Keeps it interesting.
 

nitefr8dog

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I just want you to know that during the hangar talks it was made clear, very clear, that ABX and DHL are not in negotiations about flying their stuff. That leaves ABX just trying to restructure under an ACMI market. If that includes pay cuts, as it has for all of us not represented, it is not lowering anything since the DHL work is not even in negotiations. My guess would be that they come out of it with the best ACMI contract in the market. At least I hope.
Shooter, you have been at ABX long enough to know that if anyone from ABX is talking or anytime thier lips are moving..........just fill in the rest.
 

shooter

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Shooter, you have been at ABX long enough to know that if anyone from ABX is talking or anytime thier lips are moving..........just fill in the rest.
I have seen the press reports today. :blush:
Maybe there is hope to save some more jobs.

Express shipper DHL, which has been trying since last year to hire rival United Parcel Service to sort and fly DHL packages in the United States, says it is talking again with its current cargo-flying partners, ABX Air and ASTAR Air Cargo.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/b/content/oh/story/business/2009/03/13/ddn031309dhlweb.html


Just on Feb 26th:

Although DHL now says companies other than UPS can be “a viable option” to be the air carrier for DHL’s international shipping operations in the United States, so far at least there have been no negotiations with ABX Air.
http://www.wnewsj.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=173992&SectionID=49&SubSectionID=&S=1

Maybe I should pay more attention to the verbiage used. Negotiations versus discussions, what could I have been thinking.:rolleyes:
 
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