ABX update

[abxaviator]

With upgrade expectations going from 5 to 15 years, we need to realign FO rates back to the percentages.

We need a B-Fund, even a small one to start, just so we can work on it in future contracts. Does it matter whether you get a 5%/yr pay raise or a B fund that increases 5%/yr? Can you imagine having a 25% B fund after 5 years?!!!!

UPS/FDX minus 15% will work for me and still give DHL a cost advantage.

For seat and time my HOURLY is ABOVE both F&U. I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[GoABX]

You don't pay your mortgage with an hourly rate. Monthly or W-2 is what counts and we lag both by a wide margin. If you like the rate then bump the guarantee, we don't fly anything close to it (for the most part). Our retirement isn't so grand compared to them either.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

You don't pay your mortgage with an hourly rate. Monthly or W-2 is what counts and we lag both by a wide margin. If you like the rate then bump the guarantee, we don't fly anything close to it (for the most part). Our retirement isn't so grand compared to them either.

I tried to explain that to him a few posts ago. Don't think I got through.:smash:

 

[Clipperskip]

Results of the Proffer 07-01

Yes and my numbers above ("There’s still 16 active captains and 22 FOs that will eventually get moved to 767 or DC9") didn't include that bid.

Thanks for clarifying

Not to be picky but it appears to be only 3 DC-8 Captains awarded the 767 in the last proffer. The other captain was from the DC-9. Still three captains off the DC-8 in one month is approximately 1/5 the total number!

 

[LarryinTN]

Still three captains off the DC-8 in one month is approximately 1/5 the total number!

They'd just hate it if they had to have a DC8 Capt class!

 

[Bitter]

Are you furloughed?
If so, here's my perspective, FWIW, with emphasis on the short term outlook, since that what would affect you directly.

I wouldn’t call it doom and gloom either, but as erichartman says I’m sure its different if you’re still furloughed, or on the bottom. But there’s no way I see any more pilot furloughs coming. We’ll be recall/hiring eventually, not furloughing. The question is when.

Here’s key points to watch for, IMO
How quickly will the remaining DC8s get parked? There’s still 16 active captains and 22 FOs that will eventually get moved to 767 or DC9. Worst case, of course, would be if they all get parked real soon. But I’ve even heard rumors that DHL is considering putting a couple DC8s thru C check (that decision supposedly sometime next month), which means of course they’ll hang around for quite some time.

Where do the additional 767s get put into service? (5-6 more, I think) If its in the DHL network, they can be crewed with maybe half the staffing required for putting them on some of these charters. We’re short 767 crews now. If they go to charters we’ll be REALLY short of 767 crews. If this Japan operation thats rumored happens we’ll be REALLY REALLY short of 767 crews. Meanwhile, 767 training continues.

I’ve read lots of concern about getting rid of the DC9s, but that’s not gonna happen anytime soon. DHL will have to have a replacement first, and there’s no sign of one coming right now, whether its ABX or anybody else. Put that in the long term concern column. Short term, they’re safe.

Put it all together, and here’s the worst/best case scenarios…
Worst case: Remaining DC8s get parked right after Christmas rush. Additional 767s go to DHL.
Those 36 DC8 pilots will have to go to 767/DC9. Recall and hiring gets pushed off until that’s done. Call me crazy, but I still don’t see pilot furloughing with that (unlikely) scenario.

Best case: DC8s just keep hanging around, maybe DHL pays to C-check one or two. (the most likely DC8 scenario IMO) This Japan 767 operation gets fast-tracked. In that case, I’m gonna bet we see recall/hiring in the first quarter 2007, certainly in the first half of next year.

BTW, anybody else notice mgmt seemed to have changed their tune? We’re no longer hearing ‘we’re adequately staffed’. Now they’re admitting they were ‘caught short’ of pilots. FWIW

Yep guilty as charged......Your prospective is much different from the junior guys that I still talk to, and the chief pilots office (fwiw).

They are talking of furloughs in the first quarter of the year.

All the 8's going soon, 30+ people there to find a home, 20+ too many in the right seat of the 9, and those guys are not flying much. More 9 cities to be lost in 07, causing 9's to be parked......New 767's going to DHL, thus slim staffing, and loss of more 9 cities with the knock on effect from Astar. 767 replaces a 72, which replaces a 9.

Asia contract is a fishing trip to see how low they can drive pay etc.......

Couple all of that, with the retirement age fixing to change......

I cannot see returning before the furlough expires in May of 08!!

 

[xspud]

ANA/JP Express Crew Contract

Asia contract is a fishing trip to see how low they can drive pay etc.......

I'll take a nibble and try to avoid that hook...

Looking at Hawaii Air Crew Services summary of the ANA/JP Express contract:

Average Compensation, 5 year contract (includes commuting allowances & completion bonus):

FO: $119,232/yr + $6,600/yr self-directed pension
CPT: $163,939/yr + $10,449/yr self-directed pension

These are salary figures, I assume regardless of actual hours.
70 block hours/month.
Perdiem works out to $44/day on "20 operations days/month".

I don't know if the first (plus/minus) $85K is tax-free or not. I'm not sure if the IRS would consider you based in Honolulu or Narita.

Bottom line is, Captain base pay is about 12% below ours, FO pay about 2% below ours, based on 12 year pay.

FWIW, that's the competition (at least one of them, PARC is also interviewing crews for ANA/JP).
I'm all for more jobs for ABX pilots and more opportunities for myself. Whether we can (or want to be) competitive in the contract crew world is a good question. Is it realistic and, if so, do we want to go down that road?

 

[Bitter]

I'll take a nibble and try to avoid that hook...

Looking at Hawaii Air Crew Services summary of the ANA/JP Express contract:

Average Compensation, 5 year contract (includes commuting allowances & completion bonus):

FO: $119,232/yr + $6,600/yr self-directed pension
CPT: $163,939/yr + $10,449/yr self-directed pension

These are salary figures, I assume regardless of actual hours.
70 block hours/month.
Perdiem works out to $44/day on "20 operations days/month".

I don't know if the first (plus/minus) $85K is tax-free or not. I'm not sure if the IRS would consider you based in Honolulu or Narita.

Bottom line is, Captain base pay is about 12% below ours, FO pay about 2% below ours, based on 12 year pay.

FWIW, that's the competition (at least one of them, PARC is also interviewing crews for ANA/JP).
I'm all for more jobs for ABX pilots and more opportunities for myself. Whether we can (or want to be) competitive in the contract crew world is a good question. Is it realistic and, if so, do we want to go down that road?

If it meant getting recalled or preventing more furloughs or god forbid a new hire, I think we should do it. I would gladly come back to that!!

The numbers that you quoted do not lower the bar.......

 

[Bitter]

What up with the RIV hub....Is it closing?

 

[LarryinTN]

Yeah, they had so much fun closing the almost-new CVG hub that they decided to build another brand new hub in RIV so that they could close it a year later.