ABX to compete with DHL?

[hvydriver]

Dear Heavy,

Although I do not speak for our E-Board, I am sure that they will take every opportunity to meet the Astar Pilot Union Reps in the middle. Perhaps the previous requests for seniority lists came at a busy time with our contract negotiations and all. I know that you guys have changed Union Reps in the recent past so perhaps it might take some time to reestablish the working relationship we had with your previous representatives.

CS,

From my experience, each time we've gotten a list ready since 2003 it's been because you're leadership (past and present) has stated that a merger was imminent. We've never heard anything concrete till Dasburg's letter.

 

[Clipperskip]

??

Just an observer in all this, but wouldn't 1224 be losing more than it's shirt if a merger took place? Which Union would be the winner in all this? I'd bet 1224 is wishing we had gone with them in 2000 instead of with 747. Either way, a well handled merger (ie NOT TWA/AA), if it were to happen, is always great for some, miserable for others, and hopefully "ok" for most. Good luck!

Help me to understand why you think 1224 would be losing their shirts in this merger. Why would it have been better for 1224 to merge the groups in 2003 (I'm assuming that is what you meant and not 2000). They have through attrition reduced the size of the pilot group but still slightly outnumber the Astar group. Am I wrong?

 

[b707guy]

Help me to understand why you think 1224 would be losing their shirts in this merger. Why would it have been better for 1224 to merge the groups in 2003 (I'm assuming that is what you meant and not 2000). They have through attrition reduced the size of the pilot group but still slightly outnumber the Astar group. Am I wrong?

Maybe all that's happening is that I'm making too many assumptions! I was guessing that in the event of a merger, ASTAR's ALPA would be the dominant Union in the end and that ABEx's IBT 1224 would lose out, which if true, might be part of why they aren't playing well (per hvydriver's response to shooter earlier today).

The 2000 reference was to my company going with IBT 747 back then. I don't know the specifics, but 1224 was apparently available to us at the time. Anyway, I believe 1224 represents only ABEx? If a merger were to happen, and ALPA prevailed, where would that leave 1224? It's neither a rhetorical nor a smartass question - I'm asking because I don't know .

As I mentioned, I'm a bit of an outsider in this particular discussion, but it's of interest to me because our sister company, Cappy, just voted in ALPA, while we're IBT. No apparent intent on our parent company's part to merge us (quite different operations focus), but who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of bean counting managers?

 

[GoABX]

The natural inclination is for the ABX guys to lean IBT and Astar to align with ALPA. But I hope the Astar individuals take a hard look at the Teamsters. I have never in the last 10 years heard anyone rave about how great ALPA is or all the great things they have done for them. Contrarily, I have heard countless horror stories and going ALPA scares the crap out of me.

The representation vote is separate from seniority integration. Keeping ALPA does not mean an Astar windfall and the same is true if the IBT stays.

Most of the ABX guys are pretty happy with Teamsters and that should say something. Plus, many people do not appreciate the power of 1/2 of the drivers being Teamsters. If we strike, the freight doesn't move even if they bring in scab pilots. The same can not be said if the pilots were ALPA. Afterall didn't ALPA cross the picket of another striking union? ala NWA.

In either case expect to be lied to. One union will lose everything and the other will double in size, so there is a lot at stake for both unions.

 

[b707guy]

One union will lose everything and the other will double in size, so there is a lot at stake for both unions.

That's kind of what I was getting at. Local 747 represents quite a few companies, including us. Am I correct in the impression that 1224 represents only ABX at the moment? If so, and if IBT loses the battle should the companies merge, where would that leave the local?

I agree wholeheartedly that IBT would be the lesser of two evils compared with ALPA. Some of our group have expressed an interest in switching to ALPA, but I don't think that would be in our best interest. Look at Emery. We'd have a great contract right up to the day the doors closed. Others in our group want to remain IBT, but maybe under a different local. It's good to hear that the ABX group is generally happy with 1224, as I've heard from other sources. Just thinkin' out loud...

 

[GoABX]

B707guy (and Astar guys),

Funny you should mention Emery. I suggest you get the previous MEC chairman to speak to your group. He did for us. He will scare the crap out of you when you learned about all the behind closed doors arm twisting & threats ALPA national did to their own union people.

 

[LarryinTN]

Am I correct in the impression that 1224 represents only ABX at the moment? If so, and if IBT loses the battle should the companies merge, where would that leave the local?

Local 1224 is ABX pilots. If the ABX pilots became ALPA there'd be nothing left of Local 1224 except the few office employees and two attorneys that we currently employ. That's what we like about being IBT. We are our union. Our actions are not being controlled by National.

 

[rotor&wing]

B707guy (and Astar guys),

Funny you should mention Emery. I suggest you get the previous MEC chairman to speak to your group. He did for us. He will scare the crap out of you when you learned about all the behind closed doors arm twisting & threats ALPA national did to their own union people.

that's funny, I had a few UPS pilots tell me the same thing about Teamsters when they had them as their original representation.........

kinda reminds you of the old Who song:

"Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss..."

 

[freighthound]

that's funny, I had a few UPS pilots tell me the same thing about Teamsters when they had them as their original representation.........

kinda reminds you of the old Who song:

"Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss..."

The biggest difference here is at least the Teamsters didn't work to get rid of the UPS pilots jobs. Unfortunately ALPA can't say the same where Emery is concerned.

 

[abxaviator]

Both unions have positives and negatives, and both will have good stories and horror stories. To me, the deciding factor is that if it came to a strike, with ALPA, we would have no support in way of others honoring the lines; with Teamsters, we support and have the support of thousands of other DHL employees. That in itself is a HUGE deal and the company(ies) are well aware of that.