ABX now accepting applications

[Bitter]

I hear you there. I'm so shocked I got a call, I'm not sure what to think.

Think that you would be daft to get involved.

You would be jumping into a job that has a guranteed furlough attached to it. You will also be on the bottom for a long time. ATI has over 80 Abxer's that will all eventually return to Abx and slot in ahead of you.

Just ask anyone who is/was junior at Abx. All have 3-4 furloughs.

IMHO stay away. far far away, unless you like unemployment.

 

[Bitter]

+2. Nothing really out there that is recent. I'm worried that people get hired, only to get furloughed becuase the guys from ATI go back to the line at ABX. I'd hate to get in the middle of that issue.

We have a winner. Astute and correct with your observation.
Being junior at an ATSG carrier, ATI, Capital and Abx guarantees you will get furloughed at some point.
All three airlines have pilots on the street.

Do you want to work for a management team that would take new hires whilst pilots from that airline are on furlough and wishing to return? Just a small insight into how this is run....

Not to mention how you would fair in a merger! That is likely in the first stages at ATI/Capital.


Run far and run fast.
Nothing good to see here.

 

[flyboyike]

Think that you would be daft to get involved.

You would be jumping into a job that has a guranteed furlough attached to it. You will also be on the bottom for a long time. ATI has over 80 Abxer's that will all eventually return to Abx and slot in ahead of you.

Just ask anyone who is/was junior at Abx. All have 3-4 furloughs.

IMHO stay away. far far away, unless you like unemployment.

Sigh...sounds like into the fire from the frying pan in my case. I've been at my current airline just over five years, went through a furlough and, despite moving up nearly 900 numbers, am still at the bottom.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

ABX has, in round figures, about 230 active pilots. I'm one of them (hold the applause).

There are 470 pilots on the seniority list. Should you be offered a place on the bottom, a good question to ask is as to where the missing bodies are buried.

Some are long term disabled, some are biding their time in other pursuits, some are happily employed elsewhere but some, if given the opportunity, would return. When these nomads come home they'll resume a mid seniority position on $120k a year, 4 weeks vacation and benefits.

The package for those currently on the list is far from that offered in the good old days before the Germans arrived (not the first time that's been said in the last 100 yrs) but better than much of what's available elsewhere and certainly better than nothing. So, quite a few will be jumping back aboard once their secondary choice sinks - and some secondaries are indeed going underwater.

ABX has unquestionably demonstrated that at best it regards its employees as commodities, at worst pieces of collateral to be used for leverage.

A New Hire's progression up the seniority list will be far from linear because absent bodies preclude a smooth ascension up the greasy pole.

If you're unemployed, have nothing to lose or stand to gain something from B767 training then by all means take the offer. Be aware however that once on the line you'll be fresh (probationary) meat to be ridden hard and put away wet and you can expect an interminable time living locally in CVG on reserve. You'll also be prime furlough fodder.

To reiterate: if you have nothing, this is worth a shake of the dice - but it's far from a stable career position that's being offered. Eyes wide open.

 

[Bitter]

More ATI furloughs

ATI furloughs again. More Abxer's to hit the street Feb 20th.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

ATI furloughs again. More Abxer's to hit the street Feb 20th.

I heard 15 to 20 more on the street

 

[ABXbooger]

i would be very careful accepting a class at ABX right now. Massive internal strife, and a company that has consistently shown that they choose not to do the right thing, rather the thing that will cause the most pain and suffering. (honestly) at times it seems like they exist simply to cause trouble with the people that put the bread in the basket, their employees.

You will be on reserve for years, and upgrades will run close to 20 years. My regional from 12 years ago treated its employees much better.

 

[Bitter]

For those who have interviewed, please share what you are being told in the interview process?

Is Abx management honest with the fact that you are replacement pilots?

I won't use the scab word, as a strike is not in place.
This is however an assualt on the union at Abx. Union busting 101.

As a new hire today at Abx, be under no illusion, you are taking another mans job and are defacto part of a union busting action.

 

[Jurasicpilot]

Who would want to get hired into that totally fubared ATSG situation.
-ABX has furloughed guys now working for ATI, who are now getting furloughed again. While new hires are on property at ABX and they are on the street.
-ATI just literaly took it in the Caboose on thier contract. 5% pay increase however with additional health care cost which wash it for junior guys or anyone in the right seat. I can honestly tell you other alpoid members in negotiations are reading it scratching thier heads?!?!?!
-Capital, whoa. They are flying under ATI using ATI scheduling and operational control. Oh, while getting payed the least by the way. A situation which is a mess and a major problem getting ready to happen.

There are some great guys overthere, I know more than a few. However I couldnt imagine anyone who would really want to go get hired on and involved with.

 

[nitefr8dog]

For those who have interviewed, please share what you are being told in the interview process?

Is Abx management honest with the fact that you are replacement pilots?

I won't use the scab word, as a strike is not in place.
This is however an assualt on the union at Abx. Union busting 101.

As a new hire today at Abx, be under no illusion, you are taking another mans job and are defacto part of a union busting action.

B.S. As a current 20 year pilot at ABX pilot the majority of the pilot group does not view new hires as scabs. Agreed the company could have handled this better but... they also said with the 2 yr lock at ATI and those who bypassed recall...there would be new hires on the property. The problem was timing. The new hires where hired BEFORE... ATI furloughed. Without a crystal ball it would be hard to see this coming. The new hires also made plans... quit jobs ect. Out of the 445 on the seniority list 30-40 are PFE's who went out on Medical. The average age of the group is 53 bunch of old guys. With retirements and those who have bypassed for good... the numbers will improve greatly. Hete said 4 aircraft in ASIA by the end of 2012 (currently 1) Also 2 new long trips Europe to J-BIRD and ORD to ASIA and to Warsaw. Will need lots of crews. We operate around 30 767-200 and 1 767-300 with 3 more 300's coming. Lots of crew intense flying. So welcome aboard!!!

 

[Bitter]

I never said scabs. I said replacements.
Timing was such that you well know that Hete did not have to do this. This new hire class started Tuesday. First ATI Abxer's hit the unemployment line Jan 23rd.
While these folks were interviewed prior to any ATI Abxer's being furloughed, the job offer came after the first furlough.
Not scabs agreed. Never said that. Replacement pilots.....well you get my point.
The new hire issue did not need to happen. Yes the timing stunk, but it was a deliberate union busting move to force the hand on the Asian side letter.
Also most of the 80 or so Abxer's at ATI may/could/will drop of the seniority list at Abx prior to a recall. As there is only 4 years left, on the 7 yr furlough, which will/could expire prior to these, large retirements you elude to.

Only about 25 retire in the next 3-4 years at Abx if they all stay til 65.
If the average is 53, then you must wait 12 years for that big uptick.....
So don't hold your breath that retirements will get your furloughed brethren back on the property.
For absolute surety, adding new hires won't.

Also ATI is being told that those 300's are theirs.....Go figure..

One thing is for sure. This is ugly and really sux for the guys that are on what....3rd or 4th furlough from this mess. Must really sting to know that "Jo nothing vested" in the dilema is sitting in class drawing a wage and they can't....Just saying!

 

[Bitter]

B.S. As a current 20 year pilot at ABX pilot the majority of the pilot group does not view new hires as scabs. Agreed the company could have handled this better but... they also said with the 2 yr lock at ATI and those who bypassed recall...there would be new hires on the property. The problem was timing. The new hires where hired BEFORE... ATI furloughed. Without a crystal ball it would be hard to see this coming. The new hires also made plans... quit jobs ect. Out of the 445 on the seniority list 30-40 are PFE's who went out on Medical. The average age of the group is 53 bunch of old guys. With retirements and those who have bypassed for good... the numbers will improve greatly. Hete said 4 aircraft in ASIA by the end of 2012 (currently 1) Also 2 new long trips Europe to J-BIRD and ORD to ASIA and to Warsaw. Will need lots of crews. We operate around 30 767-200 and 1 767-300 with 3 more 300's coming. Lots of crew intense flying. So welcome aboard!!!

That explains your perception....

 

[Vegas_727God]

Its Hard To Take An Airline Serious That Makes You Pay For Your Own Digs While You're In Training. Not Even The Regionals Do That And To Listen To You Guys Talk ABX Is Full Of Uber-Professionals.

 

[Bitter]

Its Hard To Take An Airline Serious That Makes You Pay For Your Own Digs While You're In Training. Not Even The Regionals Do That And To Listen To You Guys Talk ABX Is Full Of Uber-Professionals.

But those Über Professionals do not decide if digs are
Paid for or not during training.
That would be the Über Professional leadership,
The very same leadership that created the shiz storm we are
Discussing in a not so Über professional way IYO

 

[ominous155]

Its Hard To Take An Airline Serious That Makes You Pay For Your Own Digs While You're In Training. Not Even The Regionals Do That And To Listen To You Guys Talk ABX Is Full Of Uber-Professionals.

I know we are pilots and not English professors......... But I gotta ask.....


Why? Why..the need...to capitalize....each...word? (in my best "I'm Ron Burgandy?" voice).

 

[flyboyike]

I know we are pilots and not English professors......... But I gotta ask.....


Why? Why..the need...to capitalize....each...word? (in my best "I'm Ron Burgandy?" voice).

Must be of German background.

 

[Bitter]

Na just tech challenged everyonce in a while!

 

[nitefr8dog]

That explains your perception....

Hell 20 yrs is junior at ABX. I actually just finished my 19th and started my 20th, the whole list is at least 15-16 minimum.

 

[nitefr8dog]

I never said scabs. I said replacements.
Timing was such that you well know that Hete did not have to do this. This new hire class started Tuesday. First ATI Abxer's hit the unemployment line Jan 23rd.
While these folks were interviewed prior to any ATI Abxer's being furloughed, the job offer came after the first furlough.
Not scabs agreed. Never said that. Replacement pilots.....well you get my point.
The new hire issue did not need to happen. Yes the timing stunk, but it was a deliberate union busting move to force the hand on the Asian side letter.
Also most of the 80 or so Abxer's at ATI may/could/will drop of the seniority list at Abx prior to a recall. As there is only 4 years left, on the 7 yr furlough, which will/could expire prior to these, large retirements you elude to.

Only about 25 retire in the next 3-4 years at Abx if they all stay til 65.
If the average is 53, then you must wait 12 years for that big uptick.....
So don't hold your breath that retirements will get your furloughed brethren back on the property.
For absolute surety, adding new hires won't.

Also ATI is being told that those 300's are theirs.....Go figure..

One thing is for sure. This is ugly and really sux for the guys that are on what....3rd or 4th furlough from this mess. Must really sting to know that "Jo nothing vested" in the dilema is sitting in class drawing a wage and they can't....Just saying!

Twist it to sound worse than it is if it helps you vent....but reality and what the contract says pertaining to recalls....the contract was followed. We will not see more than a handful of newhires in the next few classes due to the furloughed ATI/ABX crews. The union and the company said the contract was/will be followed.

 

[mushroom]

What does UPS's purchase of TNT mean to ATI/ABX? Another nail in the coffin or will there be no efffect?