ABX Mega Proffer

[356emain]

It is true DC-9er. The last SO was called yesterday by one of our cheif pilots to confirm he wanted the class. They are all in.

 

[abxaviator]

Obviously a great deal of forethought and consideration went into the initial furlough decision.

 

[GoABX]

Obviously a great deal of forethought and consideration went into the initial furlough decision.

I don't like the idea of going through the motions, especially when it is screwing with peoples lives, BUT to get to the PFEs they had to also take out the SOs. They've rang the warning bell for the PFEs and those who can control their own destinies have chosen not to, as evidenced by many having a lackadaisical attitude toward upgrading. A straight 9F proffer wouldn't have worked, because it would have triggered recall rather than getting PFEs off the panel.


On OPF bans

The argument that money merely flows from the senior to the junior and it is ineffective is just selfish rationalization. If we claim to be members of a union, it is immorale for one man to work extra if it puts another man out of work. Forget about brotherhood, but imagine that the other man was literally your blood brother or father. Would you work two jobs and put your real brother out of work? Yes, I know that furloughee is not really your blood brother, but do you have several sets of morales and ethics you apply differently to different people to suit your purposes??

Can the company work around an open time ban....yes. Does it make things more difficult on them? ...Yes. When we are in negotiations or going head to head with the company we stop doing the favors we that do for them every night.

The OPF rationale is sort of like requesting an interesection takeoff (during negotiations) and then saying well we were going to takeoff some time anyway....I might as well just get out early. No Favors = No Favors....(even if that favor might help yourself too.)

Everyone that sqwawks about lawsuits knows the answer they want and then tries to find the evidence to support it. The lawsuits everyone refers to have 2 things in common: #1) those unions were in 'status quo' and #2) they were taken to court, told to stop, and then it continued.

People, who tout the ineffectivesness of OPF bans, always quote the failure of the ban 10 years ago. That action wore on the company and on the crewmembers. But in the end the only reason it failed was because some senior guys were going to fall out of ranks and no one on the EBoard or SPC had the stones to say "the hell you are" and it was lifted before it collapsed. Poor leadership, not poor strategy.

The solution does lie in a contract amendment that says no OPF with furlough and also protects the hi-5ers. But don't be surprised if it dies on the table.


Extra seats at the schoolhouse

If in fact the company did decide to slide the SOs into class, then they did "the right thing". The union better not say a peep about proffer protocol or seniority.

 

[LarryinTN]

It was the union that convinced the company to publish all of the 767 proffers, to run the DC9 class and to put all four of the F/Os into it. The company was going to just furlough everybody and worry each 767 class one at a time.

 

[GoABX]

LJ

I understand that. It would have been nice if the SOs had just gone direct to class via proffer. But when it didn't shake out that way, the argument could have been made that another proffer had to be posted, rather than telling them when to show up for school.

 

[Spooky 2]

Don't mean to hijack the thread here but how do the Boeing 767 pilots like the IS&S Flat Panel Display. Any issues or delays assoicted with this unit?

Thanks in advance and no we can get back to our normal programing!

 

[freighthound]

If you are going to argue OPF and staffing it is more complex than just to do it or not.

First an OPF ban doesn't even come into play until the amount of OPF days exceeds 125% of the number of hard lines. For those of you who never look at your contract, you just complain about the union, the company, and anyone else who doesn't make your life easier, that comes from the fact the company can assign the bottom 50% of the line holding pilots 2 days of work and the next 25% one day if open time isn't bid. If the level of OPF does not exceed this amount then not bidding OPF is mute because it will be assigned and there is no requirement for the company to give back any days in this case, (under 13 days off rule). All you did in this case was shift OPF around as far as who gets it. Only the OPF above this amount comes into play.

 

[LarryinTN]

We tried the OPF ban back around 1998, or so. Didn't work.

All of the bottom 50% of lineholder were assigned two extra days at regular open flying rates and those above the bottom 50%, but in the bottom 75%, were assigned one day. Next they assigned everybody two junior man days. All of this was assigned before the end of the previous month. Those in the bottom 50% ended up with only 11 days off, those on the 50%-75% range had 12 days off and those in the top 25% were down to 13 days off.

All of that was assigned without generating the need to restore any days off.

Next the company would continue junior manning to assign any remaining open flying. Those additional days would have to be returned within 30 days but then you'd just get junior manned on your return days again.

Guys were being assigned/junior manned for entire blocks of days off. Commuters were getting trips to which they couldn't commute. One guy was up on his roof installing shingles when he got the call. He said he couldn't leave, he had to finish fixing his roof. The company told him to call a contractor to finish the roof on his cell phone as he was driving into work. It was miserable.

Whenever the union has discussed a reduction in OPF in exchange for preventing furloughs the company's method for valuing each furlough was completely out of line with reality.

 

[freighthound]

Excellent, factual post LJ. Before we get rid of OPF let's remember that OPF allows the rest of us to get 14/15 days off a month, while the average productivity is between 17 - 18 days per pilot. This increases the QoL for the group as a whole. I agree the union is for everyone, not just the nifty 50 or the bottom 20. If OPF was contractually abandoned the other 750 or so would be adversly affected. I'm not saying we can't make the system better but you have to look at the system as a whole not just through the eyes of a few people.

 

[penguin22]

Don't mean to hijack the thread here but how do the Boeing 767 pilots like the IS&S Flat Panel Display. Any issues or delays assoicted with this unit?

Haven't flown one yet. The Miami guys have been flying them for a couple months, maybe they'll answer for you. The first one is just now starting to fly out of ILN, I think. So most of us will start seeing it soon.