ABX Mega Proffer

[ABXbooger]

Pretty defensive Penguin, you must really have an ulcer over knowing that the OPF you pick up is hurting one of your "brother teamsters".

Tell yourself all you want, convince yourself that less OPF won't help anyone, sounds like a drug addict saying "it only affects myself, no one else".

Point is there is no way to prove that it won't help.

Point is there is proof that it will help. Have you ever heard of UPS's attempt to furlough 100 back in 93-94 or so? The pilots stepped up and not one, I say again not one was fuloughed.

The union is not for all pilots, just those that matter, huh?

 

[ABXbooger]

As far as the senior guys doing their hi 5, let 'em at it. They earned it, let them build it up.

Don't you realize that this is not just about the most junior guys getting or staying furloughed? You are telling the company that you will allow them to run the airline as shortstaffed as the open flying will allow. You are also prohibiting people from career advancement. All the guys who would like to upgrade to captain or from DC-9 FO to 767 FO or just hold a better line,etc. By flying all the OPF, you are letting the company run those seats shorter.

Fact is, you sit from your perspective justifying your OPF, I sit looking up just wanting to feed my kids and stick around awhile.

It is hard to stomach collecting unemployment when you got guys making your entire salary plus every month.

 

[ABXbooger]

Article 12 section I paragraph 5 states that after failing two Proficiency checks, an additional proficiency check may be requested.

I think the question here is that the PFE's get three complete chances at groundschool, sim etc.

Second Officers who fail to upgrade after their second chance are terminated as per Article 11 section M paragraph 2.

 

[erichartmann]

As far as the senior guys doing their hi 5, let 'em at it. They earned it, let them build it up.

Don't you realize that this is not just about the most junior guys getting or staying furloughed? You are telling the company that you will allow them to run the airline as shortstaffed as the open flying will allow. You are also prohibiting people from career advancement. All the guys who would like to upgrade to captain or from DC-9 FO to 767 FO or just hold a better line,etc. By flying all the OPF, you are letting the company run those seats shorter.

Fact is, you sit from your perspective justifying your OPF, I sit looking up just wanting to feed my kids and stick around awhile.

It is hard to stomach collecting unemployment when you got guys making your entire salary plus every month.

Ok booger, let's look at the open time. Let's say there is enough OT for an additional 20 lines in the DC-9. That means 20 people get Captain's seats, and 20 more get the right seat somewhere. Now what do we have. Instead of the senior people or whoever else can hold it making extra money we have benifited a select few i.e. the 40 who moved to new seats. Additionally we have incurred additional payroll added costs which do not apply for OT, so the total cost of manning the airline has gone up. Joe will undoubtly seek pay cuts if this scenario comes to pass contractually. If it came to pass because as a group the pilot's declined to bid OT the union would wind up in court. If the company failed to crew any flights the court would impose sanctions and fines against the union. This would be true even if the E-board declined to support and actively discouraged the move. The precedent has been set by the courts with APA and AA.

The real problem here is the airline has stagnated for several years, and is now shrinking. I won't insult you by saying I feel your pain, because I don't. I think your solutions are very self serving, selfish, and in a word, stupid. You chose employment in very cyclical industry, albiet one that did not appear so for a while. Anyone who looked at the airline industry as a whole should have been able to recognize that when the freight segment of the industry reached maturity it would become just a subject to the economy as the pax side. Get used to it or go somewhere else.

 

[ABXbooger]

Hey eric, this isn't about me, it's about the 10 or so pilots that we either have furloughed now or soon will. Do you think we could pony up for 10 people? your arguements don't hold water when you are putting people on the street.

 

[ABXbooger]

eric, your post once again proves that this pilot group only cares about one thing.

 

[erichartmann]

eric, your post once again proves that this pilot group only cares about one thing.

I suggest you reread my previous post, & if you are capable of it, think about it some.

 

[ABXbooger]

Wow, that's so, like, seventh grade, ya know?

good post, you admit that getting rid of OPF will creat jobs, thanks. Also everything you say might happen is simply guessing. You have no proof how the company will react. 10 pilots worth of salary is a lot less than what the company pays in OT. How much in OT did you make last year? How many pilots could you have kept working? Who said the union had to make any policy? It's the right thing to do when guys are losing their jobs. Period.

I'm not being selfish, I don't bid open time and won't, I enjoy my time away from work. Unlike you I work so I can go home, not continue to work.

How about this. We make it contractual that whenever there are any pilots on furlough, the open time is reduced enough to allow those pilots to remain working. Hi 5 guys still will be able to max it out. When all pilots are working, the open time goes back to however much the company wants to publish. That way you senior guys get the OPF you richly deserve and the junior guys get to continue to do the job they were hired for.

Thought about it...

 

[penguin22]

Pretty defensive Penguin, you must really have an ulcer over knowing that the OPF you pick up is hurting one of your "brother teamsters".

You give me way too much credit. I don't feel the least bit guilty. But I am doing my high 5, so at least you give me that.

The key is, for it to work here, it would take contractural change as you suggest. As I've said, the way it is now opf would just be replaced with junior manning. And, as I've said, junior manning is very difficult to avoid. We can't just simply say no. So your UPS example falls short. You need to get it in the contract that we can turn down a junior man assignment. Good luck with that, by the way.

 

[DC-9er]

Can anybody confirm a rumor I heard last night about all the SOs being given class dates after all?