ABX furloughs 12

[T-DOGGIN]

Who is the little english guy picking up all the OPF in the 9. Isn't he the same one who was sooooooo vocal about this while he was on furlough.

 

[av8rnate]

"Are we to be a bunch of Lemings smiling, wearing the "full and complete uniform", flying on time and providing excellent service to our customer until ALL flying has been elimintated?" abxaviator

Quick question, by Lemings are you refering to the small rodents that committ mass suicide every four years? Or are you refering to the former ABX chief pilot K. Leming. If you're referring to the creatures, that would be spelled with a lower case L; lemmings.

 

[abxaviator]

Well, excuse me, but I don't know of that CP, I was indeed referring to the creature. BTW, it's "commit", one t, not two.

 

[shooter]

DHL wake up calls

NO MORE RECOVERIES WHILE WE HAVE GUYS ON THE STREET.

That being said, I definitely agree that ways need to be found to get DHL's attention and REVERSE the slide! quote]

I hope you guys don’t mind my nickel in this thread. But abxaviator, you are more correct than you may know. DHL does need the call to reverse the slide. The DHL management in America from the "old days" (as they seem to fondly refer to it) are so pro-Astar for no logical business reason it makes one wonder. I know you guys know some of the treatment they get vs. ABX.
I don’t want to come on here and bash Astar. I only want to vent about how ABX was doing fine in their niche, and then along comes DHL saying they want to be in the lucrative North American express package business. And being able to support that business is the ONLY way they can be successful in competing with UPS and FedEx. They were not able to do that in CVG and if they stick to the same business model that was failing there they will fail in ILN. ABX jobs are on the line here, and if DHL cares, their jobs are at risk too due to nothing but failure to deliver and customers will leave. ABX has been providing that service successfully for years. The track record proves it.
But the only way you can open the eyes of DHL, is with DHL in Europe, not here in the U.S. The DHL guys here obviously do not know how to read the numbers. All we should need to do is keep doing what we do. Hope the new DHL vice-president of aviation (who is a veteran DHL Europe guy) reads the performance differences. And hope that the Astar lawsuits against DHL for flying freight/international flying does not hurt us even more than the Kentucky good ol’ boy network is.
Just one other thing from the non-flying side of the operation, we as ABX accept our mistakes and try to learn from them to prevent them from happening again. We do not need to be blamed for others failures. If someone needs to learn how to taxi, that’s not the fault of ABX. (okay 1 little jab, not really bashing )

 

[goastar]

Airborne was purchased for the customer base, not the system. DHL is impatient, and now it is costing them more money than had they expanded at a reasonable pace.
As for your few guys being furloughed, hundreds of loyal DHL employees and good friends (some with 20+ years) were canned with the purchase of Airborne. I would say the trend has finally "reversed" itself! People are people, regardless of your job postion!!!

 

[abxaviator]

They did indeed make the acquisition for the customer base and have since steadily squandered it. DHL's market share of US Express business is just over HALF of what Airborne Express had, THAT slide needs to be reveresed.

 

[goastar]

Agreed!

They did indeed make the acquisition for the customer base and have since steadily squandered it. DHL's market share of US Express business is just over HALF of what Airborne Express had, THAT slide needs to be reveresed.

 

[goastar]

The only way to stop the problem is to stop squabbling amongst each other and collectively go after DHL. But we all can’t seem to figure that out.

 

[Clipperskip]

The Problem

The only way to stop the problem is to stop squabbling amongst each other and collectively go after DHL. But we all can’t seem to figure that out.

Although I agree with Goastar that we should stop our squabbling between the two airlines unfortunately this will not fix the problem. What we need are charasmatic leaders in DHL management with vision and an understanding of the US express business model. What we have seen recently at ABX is a concerted effort from our management to show DHL how "cheap" we can be (furloughs, etc.). Although good economics are definitely important to the overall model it really will not matter if the the freight is not delivered to the customers on time!

I know for a fact that ABX and Astar can deliver the freight to the various airports on time with consistancy. The question that I have is can the DHL "contract" delivery people get the package to the customer in a friendly and appealing manner. Will these individuals have the financial support and managerial oversight to ensure a pleasant experience for our customers. Without success in this part of the process we are all doomed. DHL has shown that they have deep pockets but they are scrimping on our point of contact with the customers by using the lowest bid contractors instead of doing it themselves.

Although I am sure that I am preaching to the choir here, please note the appearance of the next DHL delivery person you see and compare them to the professional delivery men and women of UPS and FedEx! It will pretty much sum up the problems that we face here with DHL. On a side note, while passing through the MEM airport last week I spoke at length to a recent DHL customer who ask me lots of questions when he found out that flew freight on behalf of DHL. He said that a DHL delivery van recently backed in to his restored 1965 Ford Mustang causing several thousand dollars of damage. The DHL contract driver apologized and put him in contact with his manager. Unfortunately after 4 months of runarounds with the contractor the customer was force to retain legal representation in order to have his vehicle repaired. He also called DHL North America to see if they could be of assistance. They explained that the driver that hit his car was an independent contract delivering on behalf of DHL and that DHL was not responsible for the damage. Lots of finger pointing and one upset customer who vowed to never use DHL again. It goes on and on. The moral of the story is that if a customer sees a yellow truck with DHL written on the side they expect that individual to be an employee of DHL. This is most often not the case and is the source of the problem.

 

[hvydriver]

Clipperskip,

I agree with both you and goAstar that we need to band together. With that said, and I do not mean this as a slam against ABX Air, you summed up the main problem perfectly. The ground delivery system is a shambles. However, that system is the one that Airborne Express was using. DHL took ABX's word that it was a good system, and slapped a coat of yellow paint on it. They are going to have to figure out how to fix it. It's too bad that DHL fired over 3000 folks when they bought ABX. They should have kept them on. At least there would have been some semblance of a ground delivery network. Where they can go from here, I have no idea. One thing is for sure. This ain't a good situation for either us, or you.

 

[Clipperskip]

Clipperskip,

I agree with both you and goAstar that we need to band together. With that said, and I do not mean this as a slam against ABX Air, you summed up the main problem perfectly. The ground delivery system is a shambles. However, that system is the one that Airborne Express was using. DHL took ABX's word that it was a good system, and slapped a coat of yellow paint on it. They are going to have to figure out how to fix it. It's too bad that DHL fired over 3000 folks when they bought ABX. They should have kept them on. At least there would have been some semblance of a ground delivery network. Where they can go from here, I have no idea. One thing is for sure. This ain't a good situation for either us, or you.

Hvydriver,

You are right that they should have keep the DHL delivery people. Those of us at ABX have known that using these contractors presented more problems than they were worth. I was personally hoping that when DHL announced the buyout that they eliminate to the contractor problem. Boy was I surprised when they fired the DHL people, embraced the contractor idea and then bragged about their high service levels in a barage of TV commercials that cost millions of dollars. What a joke. For the cost of one primetime network commercial DHL could have made up the difference in the cost between the contractors and the former DHL employees they fired. Pretty short sighted.

 

[hvydriver]

>Pretty short sighted.<

I agree.

 

[av8rnate]

abxaviator,

My apologies for appearing to be rude, that wasn't my intention. I was just curious. That CP was killed in the DC-8 accident your company had in 1996.

 

[erichartmann]

Clipperskip,

I agree with both you and goAstar that we need to band together. With that said, and I do not mean this as a slam against ABX Air, you summed up the main problem perfectly. The ground delivery system is a shambles. However, that system is the one that Airborne Express was using. DHL took ABX's word that it was a good system, and slapped a coat of yellow paint on it. They are going to have to figure out how to fix it. It's too bad that DHL fired over 3000 folks when they bought ABX. They should have kept them on. At least there would have been some semblance of a ground delivery network. Where they can go from here, I have no idea. One thing is for sure. This ain't a good situation for either us, or you.

DHL did NOT buy ABX. DHL bought Airborne Inc., which was the parent company of Airborne Express (formerly Airborne Freight) and ABX Air. We at ABX felt the same way about the IC's then and now. It is worth noting, however, that bad as that system was, it is worse now.

 

[abxaviator]

New Proffer out today, four 767 crews to start July 5. Perhaps yesterday's meetings will bear a positive result?

 

[federico]

Maybe Kitty Hawk Lax run is the issue

 

[abxaviator]

Nah, just 5 more 767 deliveries this year, the rest of the Delta birds in '07 & '08 and rumors of 12 more acquistions in the works.

 

[abxaviator]

"Super-Bid" due out today! 767 classes through November. Perhaps the 2nd Officers will be off the chopping block?

 

[Jurassic Jet]

Daammmnnn.. 16 CA's and 14 FO's. Just posted.

 

[1800 RVR]

Daammmnnn.. 16 CA's and 14 FO's. Just posted.

Is that good or bad? Hopefully good for the recently announced furloughs.

 

[GoABX]

Given our recent history in unity, I guess it would be asking too much for 5 to go unbid so they fall to the S/O's. Hopefully, the company would be merciful enough to have a small 9FO proffer.

Was the 16 by 14 a one classer or multiple classes over the remainder of the year? IF it was a multi-proffer that is interesting as they haven't done that before..what might the strategy be? My 1st guess would be they really need the people and they only want to give 1 shot to the PFEs who might have a lesser probability of completion. Or maybe a deal was struck with the union to help those S/O's

 

[Jurassic Jet]

Given our recent history in unity, I guess it would be asking too much for 5 to go unbid so they fall to the S/O's. Hopefully, the company would be merciful enough to have a small 9FO proffer.

Was the 16 by 14 a one classer or multiple classes over the remainder of the year? IF it was a multi-proffer that is interesting as they haven't done that before..what might the strategy be? My 1st guess would be they really need the people and they only want to give 1 shot to the PFEs who might have a lesser probability of completion. Or maybe a deal was struck with the union to help those S/O's

The breakdown is as follows:

4 CA 4 FO on July 5 (This one was already out there)

3 CA 3 FO on Aug 7

3 CA 3 FO on Sep 5

3 CA 3 FO on Oct 2

3 CA 1 FO on Oct 30

 

[GoABX]

It is actually a bid of 12/10 becuase proffer 6-03 had been out for a while anyway upgrades for 30 people equates to movement by over 4% of the seniority list. Due to staffing in the 8&9 there will probably be little secondary movement.

With all the proffers closing on 6/22, there might be a better chance of something trickling down due to non-bid. Good luck furloughees! It will be interesting to see if there is a stampeed off the 8 or if majority holds on till the bitter end

 

[abxaviator]

I don't really think there will be non-bid postions, but the union is trying to work with the company to keep the 4 SO's on the property; the 5th SO is a retired 8 Capt, so he'll be done.

 

[Clipperskip]

The S/O's

It is actually a bid of 12/10 becuase proffer 6-03 had been out for a while anyway upgrades for 30 people equates to movement by over 4% of the seniority list. Due to staffing in the 8&9 there will probably be little secondary movement.

With all the proffers closing on 6/22, there might be a better chance of something trickling down due to non-bid. Good luck furloughees! It will be interesting to see if there is a stampeed off the 8 or if majority holds on till the bitter end

It looks like the company is trying to help the 4 affected DC-8 S/O's. They said they're expecting another B767 proffer for December 2006 on top of the 5 proffers already posted and then monthly proffers for Jan 07 through June 07. There should be more than enough to keep 4 DC-8 S/O's busy. There should be a lot of positions open up on the DC-9 as well. Good Luck to all!

 

[B737Dvr]

staffing

So with the next proffer for a dec class and then monthlies from jan 07 till june 07, will that keep all from being furloughed? How is ABXA's crew staffing compare with these possible monthly classes? Will they have to hire for that next year or is there enough on the property already?

 

[LarryinTN]

It won't stop them from furloughing PFEs who aren't qualified to upgrade. I hear that three of the seven affected PFEs are going to try to upgrade. The success rate has been rather low, however. The first groups to upgrade did pretty well but the last few groups have had a lot of problems.

 

[Clipperskip]

furloughs?

So with the next proffer for a dec class and then monthlies from jan 07 till june 07, will that keep all from being furloughed? How is ABXA's crew staffing compare with these possible monthly classes? Will they have to hire for that next year or is there enough on the property already?

LJ is right that the growth on the B767 and all of these proffers will not help the non-pilot qualified PFE's but hopefully everyone else will be protected. Apparantly Hete has realized that they are presently short crews in the B767 and they want to fix the problem. They have been so short that they have had to take some, if not all, of the B767 Flight Standards Training Pilots and send them to MIA to fly line charter trips. This temporarily stopped the training cycle. Not good if you are already behind. It looks like the union and the company are working together in order to get the present charter flying and the flight training completed. This might take some short term compromises on both the union and manangement side in order to achieve our collective long term goals. I think that they may be trying to work out a short term IRO agreement until the permanant language is addressed in our next CBA. We presently have none and it is making the crewing of the long South American charters more challenging.

 

[DC-9er]

Given our recent history in unity, I guess it would be asking too much for 5 to go unbid so they fall to the S/O's.

No, not asking too much at all! After all, I only took this job to hold a spot until YOU got hired! Why on earth should I take the upgrade?? Even more, I'll move out to make room in my house for you while you're in training and on reserve! I'll keep making the payments with the salary I made while I selfishly held what is really YOUR job! You can use my wife, too! I found her first, but anything in the name of UNITY!!

 

[abxaviator]

Ouch!!!