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Absolutely Furious !!!!!

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ReformAlpa

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Posts
19
Absolutely Furious !!!!!
Below you will find an exerpt from the rejected TA of the ALPA professional and administrative office staff. Please read through it, but be careful...if you are a dues-paying ALPA member it will make your blood boil.

My personal 2 favorite parts are:

1. "A continuation of reimbursement of FICA taxes for up to $4550/year which provides 100% reimbursement to every Unit 2 employee making under $59,000/year. This is a traditional benefit for ALPA employees , but a rarity elsewhere."

TRANSLATION: OUR UNION DUES ARE BEING USED TO PAY SOME SECRETARY'S OR OFFICE CLERK'S INCOME TAX.

2. "Unit 2 employees will continue a 35-hour work-week"

TRANSLATION: OUR UNION DUES ARE BEING UTILIZED NOT TO HELP FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS, TO ADD TO THE QUALITY OF OUR LIVES, BUT RATHER TO SUBSIDIZE THE GRAVY JOB AND LIFESTYLE OF OUR OFFICE STAFF.

This is from the TA which the office-staff at ALPA HQ Rejected...it wasn't good enough for them. I am absolutely livid, and you should be too.

We are putting together a campaign to run a candidate who is going to put and end to this. The election for a new ALPA president is being held in October in Las Vegas. We are in the process of putting together a campaign for a candidate who will run against Duane Woerth. More details will come out as the date of the election come closer...please be patient as there is a lot of work to be done. This is a watershed moment for ALPA and our livelyhoods and we don't want to come out ill-prepared.

Fly safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsaLossPaywAlpa
Contents of the Rejected Unit 2 Agreement

ALPA has been informed by the leaders of the Union of ALPA Professional and Administrative Employees, Unit 2, that their members are on strike effective 12 noon May 12, 2006. As reported earlier, ALPA and Unit 2 (which represents the union’s clerical and administrative employees) have been negotiating with a goal of reaching a consensual agreement on the terms of their collective bargaining agreement.

Earlier this week, ALPA and Unit 2 completed a tentative agreement that contained merit salary increases, delayed health care cost increases, and improved several other areas of the contract. Unit 2 members have rejected that TA. While there are no updates on talks with Unit 2 negotiators, a number of pilots have enquired about details of the tentative agreement they have rejected. Here is a brief summary of the details of the rejected agreement.

Compensation
The rejected TA stretched to the limit the Association’s ability to provide salary increases that do not cause costs to grow faster than revenue. ALPA pilots at major airlines – including US Airways, Delta, Northwest and United – have taken pay cuts of as much as 40% or more, and have signed long-term contracts with minimal raises. ALPA dues revenue is less than it was when both the current Unit 2 and Unit 1 contracts were signed, and the dues outlook looks worse. The average contractual raises for pilots at seven of our largest airline - US Airways, Alaska, America West, Continental, Delta, Northwest and United – that comprise nearly two-thirds of ALPA’s dues revenue will be less than 1.5% over the next three years.

The rejected TA provided Unit 2 employees a merit increase of up 3.5% each year for the duration of the 3 year agreement, up from the 3% pay raise effective for the last year of the expired contract. As a comparison, the Economic Research Institute projects that pay raises for administrative positions will grow at a rate less than the 3.75% forecasted average for all U.S. workers. Additionally, while most US workers are required to work 40-hour work weeks, Unit 2 employees have, and will continue to have, a 35-hour work week.

The TA also provided for the continuation of a reimbursement of FICA taxes of up to $4,550 per year, which provides 100% reimbursement to every Unit 2 employee making under $59,000 per year. This is a traditional benefit for ALPA employees, but a rarity elsewhere.

Health Care
Despite significant and continued increases in health care costs, ALPA does not require monthly premium contributions from employees for individual or family coverage. In 2005, only 17% of U.S. employers paid 100% of workers’ individual premiums for single employees, and only 6% of U.S. employers paid 100% of premiums for families. The TA would have continued the benefit of not requiring monthly premium contributions.

Unit 2 employees have not experienced an increase to their deductibles or co-insurance limits since May of 2003, and would have continued to enjoy the same until Jan. 1, 2008. The rejected TA provided for a $75 increase in in-network deductibles and co-insurance limits and a $150 increase in out-of-network deductibles and co-insurance limits, as well as higher co-pays for ER and hospital visits.

The TA also included a reduction in the reimbursement level of out-of-network medical expenses, from 80/20% to 70/30%. While this may result in a slight increase in out-of-pocket expenses for Unit 2 employees, the corresponding co-insurance limits would have continued to limit their overall exposure. Again, these changes would not have gone into effect until Jan. 1, 2008.

Retiree Health
ALPA provides a rich Retiree Health Plan for employees who reach age 56 with 18 years of service. Unit 2 members who retired before November 2003 were paying $15 -$30 per month per person over the 2000 – 2003 Unit 2 contract. The rejected TA provided that monthly premiums remain unchanged until July 2008, when they would have increased to $30 - $50 per month per person. There was also to be a modest increase to deductibles and co-insurance limits.

Unit 2 members who retired after November 2003 and are over 65 years of age were required to elect Medicare Part B and pay 10% of the calculated premium with a cap of $60 per person on a monthly basis. The TA provides for an increased cap of $75, effective January 1, 2008. Unit 2 members who retired after November 2003 and are under 65 years of age were required to pay 20% of the calculated premium with a cap of $120 per person on a monthly basis. The TA provides for an increased cap of $150, effective Jan. 1, 2008. There will also be a modest increase to deductibles and co-insurance limits for post-2003 retirees at that time.
 
I was also 'confused' why the TA did not pass by majority as well. Most of FICA paid for, no health insurance monthly charge, slight increases in health care costs, 35 hr work weeks AND a small raise...what gives???

Don't they see they net loss of dues being paid by pilots with contracts getting cut nearly in half...what are these people smokin'?

Let'em strike, then replace them with temps.
 
What is your candidate going to do to correct this situation particular situation? Abrogate the future Unit 2 contract? I don't get it...what am I missing here? Those employees bargain just like pilots do. I'm not justifying the contents of their current contract or the merits (or lack thereof) of rejecting their recent TA but I am just curious how this unnamed candidate is going to "fix" this situation?

-Neal
 
Why doesn't ALPA act like an airline management team and squash them to ground...

AA

Ohh I know, these aren't pilots they are dealing with, this group has balls.
 
Gee, there's a surprise! ALPA using our money for things that may or not benefit their members. General sentiment around the patch is that ALPA is seriously wounded and unlikely to survive long term. Before you go bash me, find me an instance in the last 5 years where they have won a fight with anyone.

--Sick of it!!
 
What is your candidate going to do to correct this situation particular situation? Abrogate the future Unit 2 contract? I don't get it...what am I missing here? Those employees bargain just like pilots do. I'm not justifying the contents of their current contract or the merits (or lack thereof) of rejecting their recent TA but I am just curious how this unnamed candidate is going to "fix" this situation?
I heard the unnamed candidate to reform ALPA was named Neal.... Just a rumor... :bomb::D
 
Another question. Does anyone know if ALPA is listed as a corporation (for-profit) or not-for-profit organization?

I would assume they are a not-for-profit organization but I've been known to be wrong before.

And how many Unit 2 employees are there anyway?
 
PurpleTail said:
Another question. Does anyone know if ALPA is listed as a corporation (for-profit) or not-for-profit organization?

I would assume they are a not-for-profit organization but I've been known to be wrong before.

And how many Unit 2 employees are there anyway?

There are roughly 110-130 Unit 2 employees. The exact number eludes me.

-Neal
 
Wildmanny said:
Gee, there's a surprise! ALPA using our money for things that may or not benefit their members. General sentiment around the patch is that ALPA is seriously wounded and unlikely to survive long term. Before you go bash me, find me an instance in the last 5 years where they have won a fight with anyone.

--Sick of it!!

How about XJT?
 
Wildmanny said:
Gee, there's a surprise! ALPA using our money for things that may or not benefit their members. General sentiment around the patch is that ALPA is seriously wounded and unlikely to survive long term. Before you go bash me, find me an instance in the last 5 years where they have won a fight with anyone.

--Sick of it!!

How about XJT's 2004 contract?
 
wow you guys are livid over union workers standing up for themselves? should the alpa office staff also become spineless and take whatever management says? you should be livid at yourselves and use these folks as an example on how alpa pilots should act! sheesh
 
Here's a pretty simple idea-

There is nothing that these people are doing where they can't be replaced. I would let them strike, use the opportunity to replace them with furloughed pilots, and when they try to play on the irony of striking against a union, point out to the media that their rich compensation was so out of touch with what has been going on with the pilot profession that they will be replaced with furloughed pilots from now on.


Obviously, their pay should be linked to the successes or failures of the membership, not whatever the can negotiate!
 
Wildmanny said:
Gee, there's a surprise! ALPA using our money for things that may or not benefit their members. General sentiment around the patch is that ALPA is seriously wounded and unlikely to survive long term. Before you go bash me, find me an instance in the last 5 years where they have won a fight with anyone.

--Sick of it!!

Why not put the burdon of proof on yourself..... instead of making shallow statements.... back up what you say yourself.... what a concept!

Think of it this way..... concessionary contracts were/are going to happen in this environement.... What would they be like without representation.... perhaps ALPA is doing what it is supposed to be doing.... damage control.
 
Ty Webb said:
Here's a pretty simple idea-

There is nothing that these people are doing where they can't be replaced. I would let them strike, use the opportunity to replace them with furloughed pilots, and when they try to play on the irony of striking against a union, point out to the media that their rich compensation was so out of touch with what has been going on with the pilot profession that they will be replaced with furloughed pilots from now on.!

Pretty pathetic..... advocating replacement workers..... coming from a guy at FL. Using managment 101 tactics for union busting...

How is that no strike clause working out for you over there?
 
Ty Webb said:
Obviously, their pay should be linked to the successes or failures of the membership, not whatever the can negotiate!

So pilot pay should be linked to the success or failure of the airline and not what they can negotiate?
 
Newsflash: These people are working for a membership organization.

~~~~O~~~~ said:
Pretty pathetic..... advocating replacement workers..... coming from a guy at FL. Using managment 101 tactics for union busting...

How is that no strike clause working out for you over there?


What's pretty pathetic is that ALPA has thousands of dues-paying members furloughed, while these office workers are threatening to strike. I say that if they can't share the pain of their membership, let 'em walk . . . .

There are dues-paying members with no job that can do that work, and should probably be offered those jobs.
 
Ty Webb said:
What's pretty pathetic is that ALPA has thousands of dues-paying members furloughed, while these office workers are threatening to strike. I say that if they can't share the pain of their membership, let 'em walk . . . . .

I didn't know furloughed ALPA pilots payed dues. So you are saying that a union group should have thier jobs taken by strike breakers, who are also union members. IOW you are advocating that ALPA management hire scabs.

Also, I'm not sure that Air Line Pilots would want to do secretarial work and move to Virginia to do so... would you?

Ty Webb said:
There are dues-paying members with no job that can do that work, and should probably be offered those jobs.

Furloughed ALPA members don't pay dues. I went over that already with you, but yet you insist on making illogical statements a part of your arguement.

Who would offer these jobs that ALPA staffers are currently on strike? ALPA management! Again, you are advocating that a labor union conduct union busting tactics and hire scabs to replace an union labor force.


Ty.... I know you are not this stupid. There is no way you can be and be qualified to operate high performance jets... It just doesn't make sense man!

What is up?
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
I didn't know furloughed ALPA pilots payed dues.

If you really want to get into semantics, you pedantic jackass, no, once they are furloughed, they no longer pay monetary dues to ALPA. If you really want to get that nit-picky, you obviously don't have much of a point to make, do you?


So you are saying that a union group should have thier jobs taken by strike breakers, who are also union members. IOW you are advocating that ALPA management hire scabs.

Sigh . . . . Rez, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed, but you are definitely a tool. Re-read my post. ALPA is a membership organization. If these "support-staff" are not willing to do the work under these generous terms, then I say give the work to those people whose interests are more closely aligned with ALPA- namely, ALPA pilots who paid dues up until the day they were furloughed, and now need the work


Also, I'm not sure that Air Line Pilots would want to do secretarial work and move to Virginia to do so... would you?

I don't know, why don't you ask some furloughed pilots if they would like to do support work for ALPA for 35 hours a week for $59K with their taxes paid and medical insurance coverage instead of COBRA. I'm guessing that those positions could be filled pretty quickly . . . possibly by active line pilots!
 
PurpleTail said:
Another question. Does anyone know if ALPA is listed as a corporation (for-profit) or not-for-profit organization?

I would assume they are a not-for-profit organization but I've been known to be wrong before.

Anyone? Buehler?
 
Ty.. you never addressed the core issue of what I am calling you out on.

You are advocating that a labor union management use union pilots as strike breakers (i.e. scabs) to bust the union of unionized workers who work for a labor union.

Is there something you are not understanding?

I don't know, why don't you ask some furloughed pilots if they would like to do support work for ALPA for 35 hours a week for $59K with their taxes paid and medical insurance coverage instead of COBRA. I'm guessing that those positions could be filled pretty quickly . . . possibly by active line pilots!

Actually, why don't you ask them.. it is your idea. Be sure to mention that you are asking union pilots to be scabs....

Do you really want to define yourself as one who advocates scab labor?
 
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Ty Webb said:
What's pretty pathetic is that ALPA has thousands of dues-paying members furloughed, while these office workers are threatening to strike. I say that if they can't share the pain of their membership, let 'em walk . . . .

There are dues-paying members with no job that can do that work, and should probably be offered those jobs.

Dude you just didn't get it...

Your contract has a no strike clause in it.. You signed away your Federally guranteed right to self help. Seems the Unit at ALPA National has more stones than you.....
 
ReformAlpa said:
Absolutely Furious !!!!!
Below you will find an exerpt from the rejected TA of the ALPA professional and administrative office staff.

So I guess its only OK for pilots to reject a TA?

Tejas
 
Wildmanny said:
Before you go bash me, find me an instance in the last 5 years where they have won a fight with anyone.

didn't they win the employee ( pilot) parking grievance in PHL recently?

Tejas
 
WTFO? Where do these idiots keep coming from?

~~~~O~~~~ said:
Dude you just didn't get it...

Your contract has a no strike clause in it.. You signed away your Federally guranteed right to self help. Seems the Unit at ALPA National has more stones than you.....


Duuude . . . . . Did your Mommy drop you on your head when you were little?

We don't have any such thing. The "No Strike/ No Lockout" clause is pretty much boiler-plate RLA stuff. If you don't understand this stuff, maybe you should enjoy a nice warm cup of STFU . . . I'm buying.



SECTION 19: NO STRIKE - NO LOCK-OUT



A. General​


1. The Company, the Association, and the employees represented by the Association, shall
not engage in, or assist in any strike, or lock-out during the term of this Agreement and

until the exhaustion of the procedures under the Railway Labor Act.​
 
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So many Idiots, so little time

Rez O. Lewshun said:
Ty.. you never addressed the core issue of what I am calling you out on.

I have addressed it, Chief, you just don't seem to be able to get your mind around it.

ALPA = Membership organization to serve the "Membership Pilots".

"Membership Pilots" = furloughed, or have given up 25% to 40% of their pay and benefits.

ALPA Office workers = not in tune with the situation faced by "Membership Pilots".

Solution = ALPA jobs go to furloughed "Membership Pilots".

If you want to call ALPA members who have been furloughed and who will be working as support staff for ALPA "scabs", you go right ahead, but all that does is further prove what an idiot you are.

Wake up . . . . you need to take back control of the membership organization that was set up to serve YOU.
 
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Ty Webb said:
Solution = ALPA jobs go to furloughed "Membership Pilots".

If you want to call ALPA members who have been furloughed and who will be working as support staff for ALPA "scabs", you go right ahead, but all that does is further prove what an idiot you are.

Why should ALPA staff jobs go to pilots?

Ty you are advocating that union workers on strike be REPLACED. Where I come from that is called a scab..... What do you call it?
 
SCABS and temps aside, does anyone have an issue with our union dues going to offset ALPA employee federal taxes? I find that a bit much.
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Why should ALPA staff jobs go to pilots?

Ty you are advocating that union workers on strike be REPLACED. Where I come from that is called a scab..... What do you call it?


Rez:

I've explained it to you three times. If you still don't understand why spending YOUR dues to support these idiots while your ALPA brethren are furloughed, then you are obviously way too stupid to spend any more time discussing this subject with.

I'm not an ALPA pilot, you are. Maybe you are getting what you deserve . . . and who am I to interfere with that? Good luck and enjoy.

PS, Any truth to the rumor on this message board that guys who use the same avatar as you are a bunch of pillow-biting, hamster-hiding Nancy boys? Because that's what I hear. Hope that's not true, but if it is, I guess you're getting what you deserve.:puke:
 

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